Global Warming and the Himalayas: Be Very, Very Afraid

Posted by Wei
May 31, 2007

I would vote for Al Gore this time if he ran for
president again. Sigh...

Posted by Jonny Kuun
May 31, 2007

Simon Elegant,
Your title makes me wonder about your motive of this article. In fact, it is very conspicuous when you said you are not blaming China.

"Very afraid" in the title refers back to China and Global warming. So, umm, why should we be afraid of China when global warming is affecting lives of the Chinese people? And U.S. is the biggest fuel consumer.

I think your head is experiencing a global warming within itself, cool that down. And be a fair writer.

Thank you

Posted by Richard
May 31, 2007

Summer seems last longer and even hotter.And we just wait and suffer from it,how to stop this trend,every body is anxious about the solution.

Posted by Alice
May 31, 2007

I agree with what Jonny said very much.
As the biggest fuel consumer,U.S does have the most important influence to Global warming. China is a Country where peasants play a major role, so many people live their lives with the weather in China, just like Jonny said, why should we be afraid of China when global warming is affecting lives of such Chinese people?
Why don't you talk about the influence U.S do to the Global warming?

You should be fair when you are talking about something.And I think you need to learn more about China.

Thank you!

Posted by John Smith
May 31, 2007

Who would you guys vote for President of China, and why ? Any ecological reasons ?

Posted by John Smith
May 31, 2007

Simon: I hope you learned something about China in the above posts. First of all, everything in China is good, even their effort to curb global warning. Secondly, it doesn't matter what you say, it is what people speculate about your intentions and motives that gets you in trouble. Thirdly, you must roundly complaint about the US, whatever the subject matter is, and whether this is a China Blog or a US Blog.

In short, praise China and condemn US. That is the assignment.

Posted by huaren
May 31, 2007

USA Today joins the media chorus who have made up their minds: “global warming” is real, mankind is to blame, carbon dioxide is the major culprit, and President George W. Bush doesn’t care.
“Frustrated by EPA, states try to halt pollution” that “States from Maine to California are trying to slow global warming, in many instances because they are frustrated by the Bush administration’s inaction on the issue.”
"...the so-called “fossil fuels” used to meet more than 90 percent of US energy needs as: “essentials that Americans won’t easily give up.”

NASA is not so sure: As for flood and drought, NASA says “…if somehow the entire Greenland Ice Sheet melted and the West Antarctic Ice Sheet fell into the sea, the sea level would rise roughly 10 meters (30 feet). This is probably impossible over the next century….” And, believe it or not, NASA says: “some of this change may be for the better. Higher levels of carbon dioxide and warmer temperatures may cause forests to become more lush and vigorous. Warmer ocean waters on the open ocean could be beneficial to fish and algae on the high seas,” though NASA, in the interest of objectivity and balance, does admit to the possibility that “…most changes will likely be for the worst.”

Posted by Huaren
May 31, 2007

In short, praise and condemn China; praise and condemn US - with facts, not out of bad faith, wilful ignorance. That is the assignment of professional independant journalism.

Posted by nanheyangrouchuan
May 31, 2007

China's tendency to brag about its 5000+ years of continuous civilization also brings about a finger of blame to pointed at China for continuous deforestation and fossil fuel burning.

BTW, Qinghai is, no, was a major source of groundwater and now the entire province's groundwater and surface water supplies are pretty much gone.

In the past 15 years, China has gone from a minor polluter to the leading emitter of lead, mercury, organic chemicals and yes, CO2.

Bad, filthy, lying CHina.

Posted by slkf
May 31, 2007

Just what we need, more paranoia from a few Chinese posters.

I have heard a debate on Global Warming and how likely it is caused by human. I must admit that there is no definitive proof that human activities did it. However, we can't wait for proof beyond the shadow of a doubt. If we do something now, and it turns out to be something else, in the worst case we get a more energy efficient planet with possibly fewer people to destroy nature. But if Al Gore is right and we choose to do nothing because it is only likely but not 100% proven that we are causing the climate change, we are looking at destruction of cities and interruption to the supply of basic human sustenance such as water, food and land.

Countries like China and India will have to reduce their population either the humane way by enforcing birth control now, or the cruel way by massive starvation and famine due to Global Warming.

Posted by BZ
May 31, 2007

Maybe it's just me, John Smith's usual sarcasm gets old pretty quick.

There is no doubt that Mainlander, Prophet, Huaren are pro-China and anti-American. I tried to ignore them (him) sometimes, but I couldn't. And you know why? Because they do their research and back up their arguments with statistics and facts. At least they are good debaters.

Sometimes I really wish the three (two?) of you (John Smith, China Tsunami, nanheyangrouchuan) can come up with some legitimate arguments, but instead you guys always sound like a bunch of 15-year-olds. You guys keep disappointing me.

How about some substance next time?

Posted by China Tsunami
May 31, 2007

BZ.

You might as well join your college kid buddies back to China making millions. Don't waste your time here.

I rarely see Chiness (mainlanders only) care about the environment, ethics, morals, game rules, except for total focus in making fast bucks by all means.

Those who love China and Pro-China so much are indeed OVERSEAS Chinese, such as the notably 3 Malaysians posters: Mainlander, theprophet, and Huaren.

Posted by Eduardo Waghorn
May 31, 2007

Greetings (Ni Hao) from Chile:)
I'd like to know your interesting and ancient country.
I admire a lot your culture. If some chinese friend want to learn a little bit more about Chile, just take a look to my blogs.

Saludos!!

Posted by nanheyangrouchuan
May 31, 2007

Pro-China commenters provide environmental statistics? I have yet to see them.

Posted by BZ
May 31, 2007

China Tsunami,

I am doing just fine here, thank you very much for your concern. I actually spend half of my time every year in China.

FYI, my buddies have been in the construction business for more than 15 years. They made their fortune fair and square by working hard.

"I rarely see Chiness (mainlanders only) care about the environment, ethics, morals, game rules, except for total focus in making fast bucks by all means."

You are trying to generalize again. Maybe you are hanging out with the wrong crowd -- 物以类聚?

Posted by Yoffie
May 31, 2007

I really doubt the authenticity of the pictures.

Did they use the same settings when shot?

Did they shot at the same time of the year?

Which year? Because ice covers scales change from year to year.

I can have similar pictures taken in Iceland (one of the environmental model country) if you want to see.

Besides who do Chinese poison their environment for?
Wal-mart, US citizens enjoy cheap products.

I rarely see Americans care about environment, ethics, morals, game rules!

Posted by John Smith
May 31, 2007

BZ: So you think the likes of mainlander wants to see facts and truth ? And you spent half a year in China every year ? Wow...

No, we should just sing our praises about China and condemn the US. Thats the truth, the absolute truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

Posted by John Smith
May 31, 2007

I agree with Yoffie. Since the Americans don't care about the environment, and buying all the goods from China to force China to pollute, all Chinese should just carry on to pollute the world, so that the Americans will suffer.

Posted by BZ
May 31, 2007

"So you think the likes of mainlander wants to see facts and truth ? "

At least I heard more facts coming out his mouth than yours. What I see from you is the same old trash talk over and over again. Why not save it until you have something intelligent to share?

"And you spent half a year in China every year ? Wow..."

What is that supposed to mean?

Posted by Ren Jie
May 31, 2007

slkf, that is one of the wisest assessments of the global warming situation I have yet heard. If only more Americans could be like you, we could get to work on the global warming problem now, without all of this quibbling over "absolute proof", which is a concept that doesn't really exist in science anyway.

Posted by oxbridge
May 31, 2007

Word of the day:unredeemable
[syn: irreclaimable,unreformable,irreclaimable]
1. insusceptible of reform; "vicious irreclaimable boys"; "irredeemable pathological personality or twisted mind"
2. unrepentant and incapable of being reformed; "an unregenerate criminal"
Fair observation, BZ. It is unanimously and correctly diagnosed that the following subjects are given to or are fond of arguing out of spite, devoid of the basic faculty for logical deductive reasonings:
Subject # 1: nanheyangrouchuan, a quarrelsome manchild; Subject #2: China Tsunami, a doomsday nay-saying combative teenager; Subject #3:John Smith, a pathological passive-active juvenile delinquent. Hopely they or he/she are/is redeemable with age, life experience, trials and tribulations. Suggests long term pyschological counselings. Above all, a proper education.

Posted by nanheyangrouchuan
May 31, 2007

Subject #3: oxbridge, a passive-aggressive armchair academic who has nothing to contribute other than blind swipes at actively involved bloggers.

Posted by oxbridge
May 31, 2007

Thank you so much nanheyangrouchuan for spotting my typo.
Correction: Subject #3:John Smith, a pathological passive-aggressive juvenile delinquent.Hopely they or he/she are/is redeemable with age, life experience, trials and tribulations. Suggests long term pyschological counselings. Above all, a proper education.

Posted by theprophet
May 31, 2007

The five simple rules to be happy:

1. Free your heart from hatred.
2. Free your mind from worries.
3. Live simply.
4. Give more.
5. Expect less.

A 92-year-old, petite, well-poised and proud man, who is fully dressed each
morning by eight o'clock, with his hair fashionably coifed and shaved
perfectly, even though he is legally blind, moved to a nursing home today.
His wife of 70 years recently passed away, making the move necessary.

After many hours of waiting patiently in the lobby of the nursing home, he
smiled sweetly when told his room was ready.

As he maneuvered his walker to the elevator, I provided a visual description
of his tiny room, including the eyelet sheets that had been hung on his
window.

"I love it," he stated with the enthusiasm of an eight-year-old having just
been presented with a new puppy.

"Mister O, you haven't seen the room; just wait."

"That doesn't have anything to do with it," he replied. "Happiness is
something you decide on ahead of time.

Whether I like my room or not doesn't depend on how the furniture is
arranged .. it's how I arrange my mind. I already decided to love it. "It's
a decision I make every morning when I wake up. I have a choice; I can spend
the day in bed recounting the difficulty I have with the parts of my body
that no longer work, or get out of bed and be thankful for the ones that
do.

Each day is a gift, and as long as my eyes open, I'll focus on the new day
and all the happy memories I've stored away. Just for this time in my life.

Old age is like a bank account. You withdraw from what you've put in.

So, my advice to you would be to deposit a lot of happiness in the bank
account of memories! Thank you for your part in filling my Memory bank. I am
still depositing."

Posted by bornean2007
May 31, 2007

It is rather cruel and a heartless "punishment" for an advanced (reads "having been burning a lot of coal since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution to finally reap the benefits and be able to realize the beauty of nature") nation to point a fingure at a developing (reads "having been sleeping all this while and suddenly realized that its been left behind in the poverty club for too long") nation that now has a means to lift its people out of poverty.

The current style and format of global warming presentation -- including Al Gore's excellent powerpoint documentation -- is only suitable for nations such as the U.K., France, Germany, Japan, etc. and absolutely PG 13 (I meant to say not suitable) for nations such as China, India, Brasil, etc. Except for a few of their curious audience.

In fact, if China ever decided to suddenly halt all things that belch tons of blackish and sinking coal fume and thus depriving a lot of Chinese the opportunity to own a lovely Santa Barbara-style or La Jolla-style mansion, could someone please go to Beijing and give the top ruling elite a good wake-up slap?

Of course, China believes that after enduring several more years of foul-smelling air (and lovely streams without any more lovely golden koi fish), the next generation of very talent Chinese will come up with a workable solution to clean up the mass. But then they better be very sure and have faith in the future generation (of the potentially "spoilt" sons who grew up enjoying all the doting attention from their parents...)

In my very humble opinion, a (sigh... Hollywood... Ya know, sometime ya just have to trust Hollywood) movie made in the very early 1940s called "How Green Was My Valley" is far more suitable for the Chinese audience: its quite sentimental (Chinese loves it) and have an intimate family story (this Chinese really, really loves) to go with it. (And not to mention that Walter Pidgeon is far more handsome than Al Gore...)

Posted by China Tsunami
June 1, 2007

theprophet:

Quite agree wtih what yu said.

The five simple rules to be happy:

1. Free your heart from hatred.
2. Free your mind from worries.
3. Live simply.
4. Give more.
5. Expect less.

You then should stay back in JB Malaysia to enjoy life.

Posted by Mainlander
June 1, 2007

In the traditional management school of thought, human desires are aptly summed up in this golden rule - hierarchy of needs. First, it's meal on the table, shelter above one's head & security over which one can practise whatever one does best to sustain one good self in relative peace & safety.

China, according to Premier Wen, has only reached the `initial stage of socialism', still way beyond the matured stage as already achieved by the Nordic nations. We will need to redouble our effort & work relentlessly for perhaps another 30 years before we even reach what the Nordic States' present social development levels. Hence, putting things in proper context & perspective, it is thus a luxury & unreasonable proposition to ask of us to perform at par at what the developed nations emit at their present stage of economical attainments. Even if the pressure is applied, we shall not budge an inch. We are not stupid to be so easily duped!

Having said that, it does not mean we are completely oblivious of the serious consequences which our children will be subjected to by our so-called present inaction. It would be utterly irreponsible & foolhardy for us not to protect the environment. What we ardently oppose is the political overtone attached to such well meaning efforts prodded by the West. We shall operate in our own sphere of environment!

Need any material to back up my such claim, read this article :

China vows to release climate action plan
By Richard McGregor in Beijing

Published: May 31 2007 22:28 | Last updated: May 31 2007 22:28

China will release a long-awaited “action plan” on climate change ahead of next week’s Group of Eight industrialised nations meeting in Germany as it seeks to mount a more aggressive international defence of its environmental policies.

China’s rapidly growing economy and a surge in heavy industry in the past five years has catapulted it uncomfortably into the centre of the global climate change debate and Beijing wants to pre-empt criticism at the meeting.

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The Paris-based International Energy Agency estimates that China will overtake the US this year as the world’s largest annual emitter of greenhouse gases, even though its economy is less than one-fifth the size of America’s. China disputes the IEA calculation and prefers to use the measure of per capita emissions, where its large population ensures its emissions are one-fifth those of the US.

The new plan is to contain promises to increase use of renewable energy and bio- fuels, as well as measures to capture methane gas emissions via methods such as carbon sequestration.

China will also re-emphasise its commitment to meeting a target to cut energy use per unit of gross domestic product by 20 per cent between 2006 and 2010.

Last year it cut energy use per unit of GDP by 1.23 per cent, below the target for that year of 4 per cent.

China’s plan is also expected to expand on its existing defence of its position, as a signatory to the Kyoto accord with developing country status, which does not require it to agree to binding cuts in emissions.

Beijing argues that developed countries are responsible for most of the accumulated greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and should take the lead in reducing emissions. “Climate change caused by developed countries has already made China one of its main victims,” an official from the National Development and Reform Commission, the economic planning agency, said yesterday.

The official, speaking ahead of the G8 meeting, said China had already cut the amount of energy used per unit of economic output by 47 per cent between 1991 and 2005. “This figure cannot be matched by any other country during this period, including the European Union,” said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

IEA figures confirm this but also show that energy efficiency deteriorated in the past four years as China invested heavily in industries such as steel, cement and aluminium.

The official said China would be willing to accept both financial and technical assistance to improve its use of energy and cut pollution. “But it should not be linked to mandatory cuts [in emissions],” he said.

Officials said China was co-ordinating its position on climate change with India, another large developing country that is growing rapidly and which also opposes mandatory emissions cuts.

With Beijing at odds with G8 countries on a number of fronts, including trade and currency issues, the foreign ministry denied it would emerge from the meeting as a “Mr No”.

“China will not be a ‘Mr No’. We want to be a ‘Mr Co-operation’ and a ‘Mr Partnership’,” the official said.

China will attend the G8 meeting, along with four other developing countries, as part of an “outreach session” with industrialised nations.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2007

Posted by John Smith
June 1, 2007

This is a great news for China's effort in cleaning up the environment. The environmentalist advocating cleaning up of TaiHu (Wu Lihung) has been arrested. Wu had photographed a lot of "pollution" in the TaiHu area. Serve him right for releasing state secrets.

You can really see how the Chinese government cooperates, not just with the international community, but also their own environmentalists and scientists in cleaning up the environment, and upholding their law.

Posted by Freespeech
June 2, 2007

The inheritors of the British East India Company - the same British monarchy and some of the same banking houses - have launched the new Opium War just as they did the first: to loot nations, destroy them, and exalt the power of the Empire...to become the "The Third and Final Rome" - Dope Inc

on the Grand Chessboard of the royal Geo-Strategists and their imperialist orgs, such as the IMF, World Bank, Bank of International Settlements, and Council on Foreign Relations; which independently and collectively serve the same function as the old British East India, Virginia, and Hudson Bay companies. Each of them grow fatter on the economic ruin of the countries they financially "support."

You imagine that Uncle Sam rules from the White House, right? You had better think again. Uncle Sam takes orders from Rome, New York, and London; from the cronies of the crown at the Council on Foreign Relations, the Royal Institute of International Affairs, Georgetown University, Buckingham Palace, and St. James Square.

The President’s job, is not to wield power himself, but to lead attention away from it - Douglas Adams (The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

Hell, you don't know that you, America, lost the war of independence? You don’t know that you are famous for losing the wars you win?
Yep, 'fraid so, you're gonna have to fight that one again, and this time win. And this time, fellow warriors, your weapon of choice needs to be knowledge.

The sinister element that sets the British oligarchy apart from the popular image of the mafia family is its unshakable belief that it alone is fit to rule the world...

It is time to realize that it is your complicity and ignorance that permits these sorcerers of hell to destroy legitimate sovereign nations, obliterate civilizations, and silence any who would stand against them to expose their corruption.

Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing tactics, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception - Mark Twain

Posted by Huaren
June 2, 2007

"No, this isn't a story blaming China for global warming."
Of course not, it's "global." But next time you're on a plane, think of this: The plane's exhaust might be adding just enough moisture to the atmosphere to create a cloud and keep it floating.That cloud could stretch 1,000 miles long and 37 miles wide, depending on the weather and your flight distance.Add that cloud to all the other clouds produced by airplane exhaust, and it creates a blanket effect - trapping heat that's radiating from the Earth. The end result: warmer temperatures on the surface.In other words, your flight might be contributing to the greenhouse effect.

Air traffic and, therefore, contrails, are not evenly distributed around the globe. They are concentrated over parts of the United States and Europe, where local warming reaches up to 0.7 watts per square meter, or 35 times the global average.
It is estimated to reach between 0.01 and 0.1 degrees Celsius (0.02 and 0.2 degrees Fahrenheit) over the northern temperate zones for current air traffic. In the future, increased air traffic will raise these values. Large, linear contrails can be observed in satellite imagery.

In the parts of Europe and eastern North America with the heaviest air traffic, however, contrails currently cover up to 3.8 percent and 5.5 percent of the sky, respectively.

Global air traffic rose by over seven percent per year from 1994 to 1997, in terms of passenger miles flown. Growth is likely to continue, meaning contrails will play a larger role in future climates than they do today. Taking into account such factors as number of flights per day, fuel consumption, and altitudes flown, by 2050, average contrail coverage over Europe will be four times higher than at present, or about 4.6 percent. In the United States, the increase will be 2.6 times current levels, or 3.7 percent coverage; and in Asia, the increase will be ten times current levels, or 1.2 percent.
Researchers emphasize that these are conservative estimates, which take into account only the thicker contrails that can be readily observed. Thinner contrails and contrails that have developed into natural-looking cirrus clouds also affect climate. Sigh...

Posted by Huaren
June 2, 2007

Ops, sorry, almost forgot- the above were extracts from Science Daily...

Posted by dead poet
June 2, 2007

Hauren: You should think about CO2 emission next time you breath too.

Posted by Poet Mao
June 2, 2007

One gas pollution at a time, dead p...but you are right, consider the hazzards of CO2 emission... that's why I stopped driving when you stopped breathing. Oh, dead poet, why don't you comment on the cons and no pros of intestinal gas expulsion in cyberspace?

Posted by woog
June 3, 2007

Posted by John Smith
June 1, 2007
"This is a great news for China's effort in cleaning up the environment. The environmentalist advocating cleaning up of TaiHu (Wu Lihung) has been arrested. Wu had photographed a lot of "pollution" in the TaiHu area. Serve him right for releasing state secrets.

You can really see how the Chinese government cooperates, not just with the international community, but also their own environmentalists and scientists in cleaning up the environment, and upholding their law".

so what are going to do John Smith. are you just going to sit and bark?

Posted by John Smith
June 3, 2007

Woog: I will just do what all Chinese do, cheer the government on.

Posted by Dead Poet
June 3, 2007

Poet Mao: intetinal gas expulsion, whether in literary or living space, has been a Chinese tradition and cultural heritage for thousands of years. It is the most honoured profession in China. And Mao's, both past and current incarnation, are a prime example of how great honour this trade can bring to a person. With 1.3 billion practitioners, this is the most formidable form of warfare as well. There is only pro, no con, as long as it is practised the Chinese way. There is actually an age old organization in China training and promoting this heritage, and we should all be humble in their presence.

Posted by James Kang
June 3, 2007

事实胜于雄辩!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/chinese/simp/hi/newsid_6710000/newsid_6716200/6716273.stm

Posted by wes lee
June 3, 2007

Environmental degradation is happening all over, but no where as fast as China. Liz Economy talked about this and David Zweig talked about the reaction of Chinese students at USC in April. Their papers are at the conference website: http://china.usc.edu/ShowArticle.aspx?articleID=61

Economy's book _The River Runs Black_ is quite dire. There wasn't a lot of optimism about these problems. Video is up for some of the talks, but not Economy's. Hopefully they'll put it up later.

Posted by Queenbee
June 3, 2007

Jesus! this place reeks formaldehyde and farts. Oh, no wonder, there's a dead Mao and a dead poet in the room. The dead Mao is right, go fart in your own space. Whoever you think you're a dead poet. You are dead so stay dead...or contribute something that's backed up with some facts.

Posted by poet Mao
June 3, 2007

Yo, I am poet Mao (Mao Q.T), not dead Mao, you blind bee!

Posted by nanji star
June 3, 2007

I agree with Woog, I think John Smith is barking quite a bit, even my dog don't talk this much. His last post was pointless. He talks because he wants to make some noise, while people like us are talking because when have a point to make! By the way, go James Kang, you made a good point.

Posted by Queenbee
June 3, 2007

Oh, then the formaldehyde and farts are from one dead poet then. Apologies to Mao the living poet.
By the way, what the hell are you babbling on about there anyway, dead poet?
Roll over Blake and slap the imposter unside down, will ya, dead saint?

Pity would be no more,
If we did not make somebody Poor;
And Mercy no more could be,
If all were as happy as we;

And mutual fear brings peace,
Till the selfish loves increase;
Then Cruelty knits a snare,
And spreads his baits with care.

He sits down with holy fears,
And waters the ground with tears;
Then Humility takes its root
Underneath his foot.

Soon spreads the dismal shade
Of Mystery over his head;
And the Caterpillar and Fly
Feed on the Mystery.

And it bears the fruit of Deceit,
Ruddy and sweet to eat;
And the Raven his nest has made
In its thickest shade.

The Gods of the earth and sea,
Sought through Nature to find this Tree,
But their search was all in vain;
There grows one in the Human Brain.

Human Abstract
by William Blake

Posted by XD Huang
June 4, 2007

It is stupid to post the two pictures here.
They are of two absolutely different seasons!

Posted by meeeeeeeeee
June 4, 2007

u r all stupid!!!

Posted by China tour
January 4, 2008

Global warming is not an issue of one country, but all the countries on this planet. There is no sense to blame each other. We need to work together for the future of this world, and our decendants.

Posted by Em
January 4, 2008

Posted by XD Huang
June 4, 2007
It is stupid to post the two pictures here.
They are of two absolutely different seasons!

Umm, different season or not, thats still a huge change that would not happen in a change of seasons. A glacier can be hundreds of metres deep, which would not simply melt and then just reform in winter. duh.