Beijing Agrees to Talk to the Dalai Lama: II

Simon - there is not much news to justify a new post here. So I suggest you post something from http://www.rivals.com/.

Let's talk about the newest college recruits!

Well, Simon, you are a hard-working guy.

I happen to notice that this time the western media that I read unanimously (as always) use the word "talk", a word also unanimously used by western leaders lecturing China, while it is so obvious in the Xinhua news that China does not agree to talk, and China only agrees to "have contact and consultation with Dalai's private representative", and that China hopes these contact and consultation can create conditions for talks, conditions that apparently do not exist now.

But I understand that the west is eager to declare a victory over China.

The chinese protest at the torch viewing with overwhelming flag waving is not perceived as being patriotic by the majority of non-chinese which make up the rest of the world. The pundits and lampoons are going to have their way with inherent arrogance and pride that you boldly pen patriotism.
Hence, the governments new position as it fears for itself and its citizens and of course all those posh chinese buffets throughout the world.

Plus the flag waving and physical violence has reached mainstream citizens throughout the world who knew nothing of the Dalai Lama and Tibet. Thats good the Tibetan cause, the laws of causality prove themselves once again that arrogance begets arrogance, etc.
and absolute power corrupts absolutely

So your countries political policy on Tibet is known quite well through the internet and everyone sees the Dalai Lama as Jesus or Buddha or some Compassionate Saint. Your arguments against Him only satisfy your internal needs and leave you on the outside looking in at the world you would like be part of.

Similarly, on the Dalai Lama side, there are more than 50 organizations depending on the West's charity to sustain their budgets. After 50 years, all these organisations are well entrenched. If Dalai Lama is going back to China, they may all have to close shop, their livelihoods would be threaten, and somebody, somewhere would be retrenched. The existing arrangement is the best: the Chinese leadership needs the Dalai Lama to foster unity at home, the Dalai Lama needs the communists as enemies so that he and his entourage can travel the whole world preaching a Free Tibet. Everybody get to keep their jobs, the Chinese bureaucracy and the exiled Tibetans. Isn't than an ideal scenario? Why spoil the fun?

The best sales force ever:
http://shaanxi.cnwest.com/content/2008-04/26/content_1221965.htm

I can see rigid attitudes at the Defence and Public Security Departments. Rigid attitudes in the united front departments is a serious problem. These are departments which have to convince outsiders. A flexible and adaptive attitude is necessary for success. Think about a Marketing Department of a major retailer that is a stick in the mud. It will be gone in minutes. We must thank PLA for the stability of China.

谢谢simon同学精辟的分析。。

作为个中国人，我对DL的大西藏构想的看法：

1 汉人全部撤出大西藏？？—在西方，这是种族主义！在现在的西藏地区，确实有些汗移民，但是大西藏地区（青海，甘肃等地）传统上就是汗-藏-回混居的地方，DL本人的权利，本来就就限于西藏地区而已。现在要汉人，回民全部撤走，撤到哪里去？ 他们在哪里也很多个百年了吧。

2 中国军队撤离？-- 那如果有一天他们突然宣布独立（政治精英们完全有动机这么做），中国怎么办？ 指望美国？ 还是法国? 科索沃一直说不独立，现在呢？不但独立了，而且还有美国军队。。。 一个强大的国家，可以把自己军队送到地球的另外一边（美国-伊拉克），崛起的强权不可能放弃自己国土内的军事控制！ 笨蛋才会呢。。。

3 对于simon同学担心的，problem of rhetoric：我觉得这不是问题，只要以上的原则问题解决了，有利于中国统一和民族和谐，中国老百姓一定会欢迎DL回来，但是条件是国家主权统一和国家利益不受侵犯。

DL 阿，如果真是只是担心文化 宗教这些问题，早就回来了，做个什么管理文化，宗教的官员，他想怎么弄就怎么弄。这根本没有问题，但是他可不 ‘仅仅’是一个总是微笑的宗教人士阿。如果让他回来，大权独揽，无视中央，然后闹独立，到时候怎么办！？ 对此，大家应该心知肚明吧！！

可DL又有‘世界良知’（conscience of world--Nancy pelosi) 和一大群天真西方人士的支持，还天天一幅迷人的微笑。。。哎。。。麻烦的问题。但我相信政府，支持涛哥。虽然不怎么喜欢gcd。。贪污。。腐败。。失业率。。没有新闻自由。。但这是我的祖国。。

哪个人翻译一下，我自己翻译不好。。只能看，哎。。

To compassionate pig:

"everyone sees the Dalai Lama as Jesus or Buddha or some Compassionate Saint."

I am sorry for failing you on this aspect. I just convertted several of my foreign friends and neighbors to become anti-DL with some on-line pictures, which were took in Tibet, when Dalai Lama was still the ruler and largest slave owner there. What were the pictures about? The pictures indicated how brutal and anti-human the Tibetan slavery was. Specifically, the contents of the pictures included the Tibetan slaves with their hands and foot cut off by their masters, the tools used to torture and punish slaves and the un-imaginable poverty of the Tibetan slaves.

The sick and unforgertable things showed on the pictures are hided by both Dalai Lama and western media. All of the friends and neighbors of mine were extremely shocked by those pictures. So, just go ahead image how disappointed and mad they are at your "Jesus or Buddha" now.

The red carpet of my shoulder.

Early in the
morning, when
gloomy canticles
rejoice in the
sound of the quietness,
I hear a scrupulous
voice on the sun
of a summer, while
a sadness delights
and discovers a care.

Francesco Sinibaldi

http://www.novedadesanalitica.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15425

Western media headline: China Agrees to Talk with Dalai.

The world - which really means N.America and Europe - rejoices: We won! China caved in!

Western media demanded a meaningless talk, and China shall give a meaningless talk.

Everyone can declare victory and go home. That's the essence of it, it's nothing more than a PR exercise.

China knows fully well about the duplicity of Dalai. Dalai can't be trusted, he speaks with a forked tongue, literally: In the Chinese version of his letter to Chinese people ,he talked about "Han and Tibetan" are sisters and brothers; But in his English version, he talks about "Chinese and Tibetans".

In fact ,there have been 6 rounds of talks already, but nothing concrete came out of it. This one won't be any different.

If anything, China will be more resolute and determined in her position. So this announcement of possible talk is all about the posture of talk, not what will be talked about.

Frankly, not many people are bothered by the silly details anyway. for Joe free-tibeters, now that China and Dalai are talking, Tibet problem, check!

"Frankly, not many people are bothered by the silly details anyway. for Joe free-tibeters, now that China and Dalai are talking, Tibet problem, check!"

Wonderful, the world is fooled by the Chinese government again !! China has shown itself to be a great country once more.

Politics-free Olympics unrealistic: Australia-Tibet Council

Australia's Tibetan community says pro-China supporters in the country cannot expect the Olympics to be free from politics.

More than 1,000 people, many of them students, attended a rally in Perth yesterday to voice support for Beijing and the Olympic torch relay.

The rally's organisers said the Olympics should not be linked to politics nor should there be any more riots.

Paul Bourke from the Australia-Tibet Council says they support the rights of pro-Chinese to express their opinion but they should do the same for Tibetans.

"We would call on them to recognise the rights of the Tibetan people in Tibet to practise their religion, to be able to recognise the Dalai Lama as their spiritual leader and not to be imprisoned and tortured simply for holding and expressing their views," he said.

Posted by ZW | April 26, 2008 9:32 AM

In English please!!!!!!!!!!

Simon Elegant:

Extremely well written and balanced blog.

The key point to note is that 'Neo Red Guards' who control Beijing (as opposed to the Shaighai group under Ziang) are not really interested in peace, autonomy, and prefer the status quo.

Talks with His Holiness are just a gimmick to get the Olympic heat off, and to aviod an embarrasment of too many world leaders boycotting the opening ceremony.

The CCP was caught with it's pants down when the riots erupted in Lhasa, and it is just engaging in some damage control at the moment.

Negotiations can only occur if both sides are willing to compromise. His Holiness has already compromised by going for autonomy as opposed to well deserved independence. He has also compromised on the terrorial borders of autonomous Tibet, opposed to Tibet that was governed by him in the 1950s before the Communist agression.

The current CCP leadership are just engaging in deception, and not going to compromise.

Another thing about achieving peace with Tibeteans and also with the Uigurs.

Both overseas and mainland Chinese are at a nationalist fever pitch. One has to ask the questions - what is Chinese Nationalism? This is important to assess the behavior of the recent Han Diaspora and fundamentalist nationalism.

Han chauvinism has taken the primary discourse of Chinese Nationalism in the 1950s. Although the teaching is not overtly called Han chauvinism, much of Chinese history taught in schools has a heavy dose of Han chauvinism in it. These ideas also passed onto kids by their parents, family etc thus impacting the overseas Chinese.

As mentioned earlier, Han chauvinism is an ignorant and insenstive form of loving your country. It pits the Hans agains the others by inventing enemies of other nationalities. It even victimises Hans. For example, Hans who fail to take an extreme view are labelled traitors - for example Jin Jing on not boycotting Carrefour. Han chauvinism is an imperialist in nature, and encourgages colonisation of non-Chinese lands.

The way to peace is simple:

Step 1: The Chinese need to admit that Han chauvinism exists in the education system and has infected the Chinese mindset.

Step 2: De-construct Han chauvinism explaining the flaws of this form of nationalism.

Step 3: CCP to introduce a new discourse in nationalism that is more compasionate to all. This must include the completion of Xenophobia in all litreture!!

Correction to Posted by A-Singh | April 26, 2008 6:59 PM

Step 3: CCP to introduce a new discourse in nationalism that is more compasionate to all. This must include the completion elimination of Xenophobia in all litreture in schools and universities in China!!

bookevil, all the same talking points that bore me, you have not done any favor to the tibetans ... i suggest you going there for a vacation to air out your laundry instead of here.
if you are what you eat, try to eat monk food, 'but leave monks alone', maybe gain some wisdom to clear your inherent ignorance and pride.

Communist China is the biggest threat to world peace, global stability, regional & global national security due to its imperialism.

Communist China has mastered the art of deception, lies, fabrication, false flags and Psychological Operations.

A true danger to the world.

Unless it changes its behavior, it will never be at peace with its neighbouring countries of Tibet, Xinjiang, Taiwan, Japan, Russia, South Korea, Russia and Kazakhstan - most of whom it has border disputes (to fulfill its imperialist ambitions).

mao tse tune

Agree with your comments. These guys on this blog so ignorant of different cultures.

Tibetean Buddihism is an ancient, civilised, fair, equitable and 'free' culture. If Tibetean monks want to their lives praying in Monastries for the good of humanity - nothing wrong with that.

I dont know why the Chinese are so scared of innocent monks??????????????/

DaLiar Lama:

Can you please change your username? It is rather offensive to decent and peaceloving human beings.

I know you are trying to be funny with your display name, but it rather reflects lowly on you as a human being.

Many thanks,

A-Singh

From mao tse tune: "We would call on them to recognise the rights of the Tibetan people in Tibet to practise their religion, to be able to recognise the Dalai Lama as their spiritual leader and not to be imprisoned and tortured simply for holding and expressing their views," Paul Bourke from the Australia-Tibet Council says.
-----------------------------
Yes if that's all it is - and Dalai Lama is stripped of ever being a political leader - I think the central gov't will go for it.

If it's about preserving the Tibetan cultural identity (one of the 56 Chinese national identities) - every Chinese will be for it.

If however it's about winning political power for a former slave owner - it'll be no deal....

Why are the Chinese do petrified of innocent monks???

There is a complete news black out of major news organisations in Tibet, but the news trickling out from ordinary Tibeteans says that monks have been detained, many shot, and dissapeared.

For Chinese Nationalists who think Tibet is part of China: Surely it is not right for to use the army (tanks, guns, torture) on unarmed civilians in 'your' country???

Chinese nationalists dont have leg to stand on when it comes to ethics, morality and human rights. SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A simply brutal lot.

A-Singh or ASingh is a Tibetan-in-exile.
Your tones tell all!

SHAME ON YOU, A-Singh or ASingh 'cause you're a coward Tibetan thug who's hiding a turban.

Stop portraying yourself as a Singh!!

"We would call on them to recognise the rights of the Tibetan people in Tibet to practise their religion, to be able to recognise the Dalai Lama as their spiritual leader and not to be imprisoned and tortured simply for holding and expressing their views," Paul Bourke from the Australia-Tibet Council says.

The statement may be something both sides can work with. At least a beginning of a dialog tends to rest some of the strained emotions for you Olympic hopes.

The Dalai Lama has in the past asked for more autonomy not cessation from china.

To let the monks practice austerities and farmers farm and the nomads roam, all jails free political prisoners and let the Dalai Lama go home and set up retreats in Tibet for curious westerners to visit. Leaving the past behind and moving forward is far better than being stuck a stupid policy that divides china.

It doesn't take the paris peace talk to practice acts of kindness. I have it in me to shelf my emotions in order to understand my actions or forgive even if i don't really understand, for the merit of causality and future karma.

Many people are becoming tired of the static quo and would like to move on from the past actions with a new plans with a more progressive future. Its happening already, right now the spotlight is on china to make a meaningful stand on tibet, its an excellent chance to practice the Buddhist perspective of loving kindness for future merit.

"bookevil, all the same talking points that bore me, you have not done any favor to the tibetans ... i suggest you going there for a vacation to air out your laundry instead of here."

To mao tse tune:

Sorry for turning you from a active anti-China guy to a active-and-mad anti-China guy. I realized that you commentted my post, which was about Dalai Lama's identity as a former brutal slave master, "bore" you very much. So, it means that you already knew Dalai Lama's such a non-reputable identity even a lond time ago. That was why you were bored by hearing of it again. Right?

Did you even realize how unreasonalbe you had been when you claimed to be bored by the post? When I showed those sick pictures to the westerns around me. They immediately told that they would never want to see DL again. But you, you are even still defending him, even if, you already knew how his slaves were brutally treated a long time ago. Now, we all learn that you just want to do someting anti-China, and do not care whom you are going to do it with. What is making your mind so twisted?

your a confused comedian bookevil like a charlie chatlin hitler...but just of a splinter of the communist right wing. you know so much of civil rights for china. now your the insecure child of an estranged minority in a strange land, your racist propaganda will not give you much shelter from the karmic waves of change you aspire too. good luck to you and your sand castles

Tibetans in exile complain religious persecution by Dalai Lama.

Quote:

Since 1995, the Dalai Lama has unceasingly inflicted heavy and unjust punishment on the practitioners of Dorje Shugden—all of whom are completely innocent practitioners. Using his people like an army, the Dalai Lama has destroyed all Shugden Temples and shrines, caused thousands of people to experience inhumane situations and unbearable feelings of pain, and expelled all Shugden practitioners from the Tibetan community. He has separated innocent people from their families, friends and community. As a result of these actions, thousands of Shugden practitioners have been forced to become refugees for the second time in their life as they try to escape such inhumane actions that exist in this modern world by seeking exile in other countries.

Below are the videos regarding the Tibetans in exile complain religious persecution by Dalai Lama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aboblx-0zAs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5sOm-uQH9Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1dILwsmwCQ

The journey of a thousand miles begin with the first step. If both sides are sincere to resolved the situation. A good point to start is to consider a special autonomous region or a special administration region status like Hong Kong to Tibet (with political, economical and social autonomy). Even Taiwan is now having a dialogue with China. There could still be a lot of sticking point to this but they had to start somewhere, unless both sides are satisfied with the status quo. Now is the best time to resolve their dispute when both sides still got something to offer. If the dialogue now fails. Then there will never be a chance to resolve it even for a hundred years.

"your racist propaganda will not give you much shelter from the karmic waves of change you aspire too."

To mao tse tune:

I feel so ridiculous by being called as a racist. As a Manchurian Chinese, I am a MINORITY person in either China or US, where I am currently residing. How can a minority person like me be a racist against other minority people?

On the issues about Tibet, being anti-China is your choice, but always remember that you are standing on the same line with the former brutal slave masters, such as DL and his officials.

I guess that you are trying to say that the karma of the people, like me, will be sad. Well, what can your karma be as you keep defending the former brutal slave masters?

"How can a minority person like me be a racist against other minority people?"

Yes, you can be a racist too if you judge others by their race, not what, how, when, where the do, even if you judge them to be great and wonderful. And that include yourself. If you think you are xxx or not xxx just because you are Manchurian, you are a racist.

Or, if you think some one is right just because he/she is of a certain ethnic background, you are a racist too.

Racist is an equal opportunity club. It does not disqualify you just because you are a minority, or any other ethnic background.

'Racist is an equal opportunity club. It does not disqualify you just because you are a minority, or any other ethnic background.'by John Smith

Quite interesting. This is probably the first time that I agree with John Smith.

John Smith

I am just curious. Was you born in China or here in US? I know it is a stupid question. I know majority of Chinese here (either their parents or themselves were born in China) would bear some Chinese heritage. We all love China our motherland as much as we love America. Do you love China? Or you just hate communist party? It is a different concept and entity.

mao tse tune ：
don't always suggest, becuz you can never be sure of what ppl need. It is not so simple as to let Tibetan monks do whatever they like. Eventually Tibet will be under world influence and they need to face the world. This is the general trend of globalization.

谢谢simon同学精辟的分析。。

thanks to the independant analyses of dear Simon.. you did one good work this time...

作为个中国人，我对DL的大西藏构想的看法：
and as one chinese in China, i have some comments about the 'great tibet' claimed by DALA LAMA.

1st: current tibet and Qinghai, gansu, yunnan province should forme one Great tibet where only allow tibetain lives in order to protect tibet culutre, religin..etc..
lol, it's just on pure Racist...becose in many province close to Tibet, as Qinghai,Gansu,yunnan, there are traditionnally co-habitation or co-existance amongst Tibetain,Han,ouiguis. and historically, DALA's power was just limited in inside of current tibet. and don't forget banchane LAMA, the No2 of tibet buddist, he also share the religious-politics power in tibet... and now, the middle way of dala want Hans,ouiguis move out. isn't one pure Racist? and where their humain right??? and they should move to where??? they already installed there hundrads years!!!

2 DALA's middel way require chinese troops quite tibet! and he don't seek for independence.that's too..... if dala go back to lead tibet and one day, he declare indepence( politician absolutly has motivation to do that), then what chinese should do. we should hope washington to hold the justice? or Paris?
how about Kosovo? they also didn't say they want indepence, and now? with Americian troops... one superpower could send troops to another side of the Earth( USA--iraq i m sorry to indicate that :), and the rising potential power will not give up millitary control of his own land. if u a lead of beijing, will u ???

3rd, and ours dear simon worry about the problem of rhetoric: personally i dn't think it's one big problem. as long as dala and beijing find one good solution for the above politic principal, chinese will welcome one pure religious lead of buddist, at least i will... becose unity of china is the wish of the whole chinese people, wharever inside or outside of china, the whole chinese blood in the world... and also the major chinese, include han, tibetain, ouiguis, do wish one china prosperious, peaceful, unified and with mutual-understanding and respect.

personally, the problem is complexe, if dala really care about the culture and religious protection, it's find, he could come back, to be one official of high level, to protect the tibetain culute and religious, of cose inside of china's souvereinty.fine.. agree...
but, it's not so simple. hehe...if he back and take the great power, then ignor central goverment, do the politic for his owe interest then as long as he is strong enough and then declare indepence.. what should we do ??? i m afraid it will be the next Chechnya and Kosov...

any way, it's one head-ache problem...
and i m with my goverment, even i dislike communist, hoho....corruption, censurship of media...but it's my country...

and for some monks and ex-noble in tibet, they will never satisfied, becose they was the noble, the privilige, the master, and they lost everything, they will neve like chinese and communist... and today, more and more tibetain, ordinary tibetain, could benefit from chinese economie development, just go to tibet to see it(i have been to their once, thanks to the new railway), you will find most ordinary tibetain don't so sad, they like their new life. soon, their life in tibet will much more better than your in exil... disappointed, u ??? : )

and by the way, after the riot in lhasa, one journalist(zeng zimo) from hongkong (Phenix news) writ this: one tibetain bussinesman in lhasa said: they are really beasts, the rioters, they just 0.1% of tibetain, we don't hate Hans and the ordinary tibetian want one peaceful tibet, to get better life... disappointed U?
thanks again to work of SIMON. viva the mutual-understanding....
any critizism???

Little scrappy Simon is still here. I have visited this site for a few days.

I am actually going to comment on his article on "virulent nationalism" in China.

For years, western journalists have put on this facade of "helping oppressed Chinese to get their voices" heard in west. They are the real "mouthpiece" of Chinese people as they claimed.

To Chinese, that kind of statement is as absurd as Richard Gere's claim that he represented one billion Chinese. But over the years those journalists have fool quite some in west who does not have chance to interact with Chinese much.

Now that lie is exposed as waves of Chinese vented their anger against the racism-oriented western media. The original claims look like jokes now.

The western media now is taking two approaches.
one typical is the approach our Little Scrappy Simon took: Blame the Chinese as either brainwashed or nationalistic. The other is the approach took by other western media: pretend nothing has happened. No or minimal reporting on the Chinese protests against western media as they know they look stupid when reporting those.

Neither method will work. What western journalists need to do is to have some introspection, asking themselves how they lost the heart and trust of Chinese. Many of those protesting western media today are the same participants of Tiananmen square demonstration 19 years ago.

19 years after Tiananmen demonstration, the Chinese governement has won decisively against western media in both mind and heart of all Chinese, because of the stupidity and arrogance of western media exemplified by the venoms of Little Scrappy Simon.

History is history: A stamp, evidence of China's undisputable sovereignty over Tibet
By Qiuliang

Recently, the Olympic torch relay was disrupted and sabotaged by Tibet secessionists and their supporters in London and Paris. This reminded me of what the French politicians did about two decades ago and my then debate with them.

Actually, the French public knows little about China. Their very ignorance was exploited by Tibet separatists and their followers. After the Lhasa unrest in April 1989, France's then first lady, Madame Danielle Mitterrand, also president of Association France-Libertes met Dalai Lama in Paris, expressing her concerns about the human rights issue in Tibet and hopping China could end the curfew on Lhasa as soon as possible. In October 1990, when Dalai Lama arrived in France to promote his French-version autobiography, My Land and My People, he was met by the then French vice foreign minister and was received by Madame Mitterrand at the headquarters of Association France-Libertes.

Later, the French National Center for Scientific Research's Department of Humanities and Social Science held a seminar on Tibet issues. As the first secretary in the Chinese embassy in France, I took part in the meeting. I briefed the Tibetan history, emphasizing that Tibet has been part of China since hundreds of years ago. Dating back to 1279 AD, Tibet became an administrative region directly governed by the central government after the Genghis Khan unified China, I said. Since then, Chinese central authorities, albeit experiencing great ups and downs, kept its administration of the region, I added. In 1644, Qing Dynasty overthrew the government of Ming and established its rule in China. Then new government strengthened its administration of Tibet through law and regulations, I explained. Then I displayed to the French audience a stamp issued by the Qing government in 1911 and the postmark had the word "Lhasa" written in Chinese, Tibetan and English. The stamp made the French attendees acknowledge that it was not right to say that China invaded and took Tibet in 1959. Then I told them, "Please have a look at the French map in18th century. Corse was handed over to France after a secret agreement was reached in 1768. And the Corse locals resisted the French presence." Finally I claimed, "History is history. France has no rights whatsoever to interfere with or to lecture China in terms of historical matters." My words and the stamp rendered the French no chance to dispute.

You can see picture of the stamp in this link, http://www.china.org.cn/china/Lhasa_Unrest/2008-04/27/content_15022605.htm

I am for what China do to DL,and I hope Bush be for.Don't hurt Chinese people any more.The thing of Tibetan has nothing to do with you.It is just we Chinese businese.

Visitor:

All all due respect, I aint no Tibetean. Nor do I have any Tibetean friends (not met any in India). Neither do I have any links with His Holiness, but like all Indians we are a deeply religious, tolerant society, and we hold His Holiness in very high regard.

Tibetean culture is very similar to that of Northern India and Nepal.

Han Chinese Nationalists like you just dont like to admit it that the world does not like Communist China.

I can assure you that Indian people dont like Communist China, and its brutal human rights violations in Xinjiang, Tibet, threats to Taiwan, forced repatriation of North Korean refugees and the list goes on (I could fill a million textbooks documenting these rights abuses).

To prove my point, go to the most popular anti Communist China groups on facebook, and you will notice it is filled with Indians.

Simon Elegant:

Vistor made a racist comment - ASingh 'cause you're a coward Tibetan thug who's hiding a turban.' (Posted by Visitor | April 26, 2008 9:25 PM)

That is a deeply offensive and racist remark relying on racial sterotypes.

Are you gona ban him? Or too afraid of getting extra flak from the Communist China bloggers?

Posted by David | April 26, 2008 11:22 PM

David, I know you thought you probably found gold there. The truth is that this film was made by the Chinese intellegence agencies in Tibet. The interviewees are being forced to give false evidence or they are Chinese spies.

Even a 2 yr wont beleive a lie like that. Pure simple propoganda. However I can understand why the Han Nationalist would beleive it - the answer lies in Han chauvinism form of nationalism.

Remember what I said earlier - Han chauvinists are ignorant and self obsessive nationalists who construct enemies of other ethnicities, and you just proved yourself to be one (any any other Han here who beleives this CCP propoganda)

Bookevil

You might be Manchurian, but a few Manchurians have also sold out to the Chinese in return for financial and political rewards. A few Manchurians have also benefitted from the growth.

However most Manchurians have not gained, and have just be brutalised by the Han chauvinists. Maybe it is time you stood up for your people, or you might regret your treachory on your death bed.

我提倡大家说中文！我们的中文是世界上最美的语言！

我提倡大家说中文！我们的中文是世界上最美的语言！

Posted by Orsino | April 27, 2008 12:58 AM

And Orsino agrees for the first time he too is racist having been infected with Han chauvinism during his formative years in school.

Posted by jeff | April 27, 2008 1:08 AM

Jeff needs to be asking himself some of those questions.

Do his loyalties lie with the US - the country has feeds, clothes and provides for his family.

Or China - the country that gave him nothing (other than CCP propoganda), that he had to immigrate to the US.

(Your loyalties cannot lie in both places, as most Americans consider China a threat with a different set of values and Human rights. Also Chinese people hate the US cause they have a victim mindset.)

Perhaps this a questions for all overseas Hans.

Another example of Han chauvinist nationalists - no different from the political master goons and thugs:

Scuffles at South Korea torch leg-

Police struggled to contain thousands of flag-waving China supporters who chanted slogans and threw rocks at peaceful demonstrators denouncing the torch relay.

Meanwhile, police managed to restrain one North Korean defector who tried to set himself on fire to halt the procession.

Human rights lawyer Kim Sang-chul told Yonhap, a South Korean news agency, that China had repatriated 75,000 North Koreans over the past 15 years, most of whom would be executed.

"China tries to promote itself as a civilised nation but what it's doing to the defectors is uncivilised" he said.

Protests elsewhere on the torch's progress have turned the celebratory tour of 20 countries into what analysts describe as a public-relations disaster for Beijing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7369471.stm

coco

我提倡大家说中文！

中國必須停止殘忍的踐踏人權。

現在中國是充滿了仇恨。中國應採取和平的語言。

Facts are easy to find on Tibet.

Tibet was occupied and invaded several times, it was never by the Chinese. China says that they have ruled the region since the 1200s, but in the 1200s, it was the Mongols who invaded. The Tibetans entered into a “priest-patron” relationship with the Mongols, although the scholars argued as to the extent, while that relationship existed, it was in reality complete domination, some scholars say it wasn’t.

Later in the 1700s, the Qing dynasty took over Tibet, but once again, the Qing dynasty was Manchu, or from Manchuria, and not Chinese. It was very clear to them the Manchus were not Chinese, and that the Chinese actually hated the Manchus. This dynasty abdicated in 1912, when the Republic of China was formed. That same year, Chinese troops in Tibet ceded and left the country, and the 13th Dalai Lama proclaimed independence.

The point of contention is where China says that they have ruled over Tibet for 800 years. The problem with their argument is that neither Mongolians nor Manchus are ethnically Chinese, and have never been, so to say that Tibet has been part of China for that long is a complete farce, unless Western Europe and the Middle East are also counted as part of China now. The Mongols, as you may know, had the largest contiguous empire in the history of the world. In that case parts of the Mediterranean should be part of China.

Posted by mao tse tune | April 27, 2008 8:36 AM

Very well written........

Can China ban The Color Orange?

Take part in checkmating the Chinese regime and
making a global manifestation for human rights.

We hereby encourage you to join the initiative TheColorOrange.net with the aim of showing China - during the Olympics in August 2008 - that we are many people who are keeping an eye on China's human rights violations.

The idea is both sophisticated and simple. By using something with the color orange during the Olympics - both inside and outside of China - you are sending a signal to the world that something is wrong in China. It can be anything, like an orange hat, camera bag, tie, pen, paper, dress, suit, bag etc. Even pealing an orange will be considered a pronounced statement.

No political or religious movement can claim to have a monopoly of the initiative. By participating in the project you show that you support the fight for human rights in China.

The Chinese Government wants to present the Olympics as perfect and streamlined to billions of television viewers around the globe with the aim of promoting China as a modern and efficient society. They will do anything it takes to avoid getting criticized on television. However, by using the Color Orange we are exactly capable of breaking with the harsh censorship and embitter the joy of the regime. At the same time, millions of oppressed Chinese people will have a voice during the Olympics 2008.

The Olympic Charter stipulates as fundamental Olympic principles: "the respect for universal fundamental ethical principles" and the promotion of "a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity". Nobody can fairly claim that the Chinese regime is living up to these standards. On the contrary, the usage of the orange color will be an ethical and non-political statement that is indeed in deep harmony with the fundamental principles of the Olympic movement.

The initiative can only succeed if a lot of people are aware of the significance of the Color Orange. This would normally require a publicity budget of million of dollars. This, however, we don't have. But in stead we (might) have you :-) If you, and millions of others, help pass on this idea together we can create a butterfly effect blowing an orange wind over China.

Simon Elegant and others

Very important point.

We usually have a habit to listening to the most vocal groups in any section of civil society. The vocal pro-China bloggers on this site among others and the charade of flag waving Chinese during the torch procession, only refect a minority view among the nation. They are most extreme elements in China.

One needs to listen to the silent majority of Chinese people who would support improvement in Human Rights, autonomy for Tibet in peace, no conflict with Taiwan etc etc. Such a silent majority are victims of the nationalists.

Every social transformation has winners and losers - the winners are the vocal bunch here, and the losers (who have lost their freedom, HR, religion etc) has been silenced.

The world needs to pay attention to the silent majority - their voices being suppressed by the vocal minority. Perhaps some investigative journalism would help......

A-Singh thanks for the 'Orange touch' its nice to share with rational minds the hope and dreams of altruist everywhere, We must continue to demand the return of chinese diplomacy and end the political nightmare of the' LUNATIC FRINGE'.

Arianna Huffington coined the term 'lunatic fringe' when describing the bush, cheany republican administration and the pundits who support them. In her new book 'Right is Wrong', i can't help but notice the similarities of China nationalism and the last 8yrs of neo-con domination in Washington. They both think they can change the world and control the interest of weaker nations at the cost of its citizens. You can get more info on her websight Huffington Post.

The lunatic fringe will always show no remorse for their misdeeds, so its important to keep reminding them they are on the wrong track and eventually vote them out.

Along with my own altruistic intention that i keep in my heart i already own orange and green clothes and will now wear proudly.

To John Smith:

“Or, if you think some one is right just because he/she is of a certain ethnic background, you are a racist too.”
Ok, it seems you admitted that, being a minority person, I am just less likely to a racist. It sure does not completely qualify me to be a non-racist. But the fundamental thing is: to accuse me of a racist, you have to, at least, find something I posted against Tibetan identity? Something about their culture, custom and religion? Unless you count the brutal Tibetan serfdom/slavery as a great part of Tibetan culture and history, because that is the only thing about DL I criticized about so far.

to A-singh 同学:

嗯，有意思。

1：最近中国的愤怒可不是少数的民族主义者。你可以来中国看看阿，随便问问，哪一个中国人不对最近的事件愤怒，尤其是对于少数的西方媒体的偏见？？！！不要以为那些游行的人，是少数被洗脑的小gcd，这次中国人真的愤怒了。看看全世界华人的抗议，伦敦，巴黎，柏林，美国。。。他们很多离开中国都很久了，或者根本是当地出生的，你以为他们也被洗脑啦？？？

2：对于你说的人权，我同意保护人权，而且gdc不是个好学生。但是最近的西藏事件，你有没有看到被杀的汉人？看到火海中的西藏？军队是不会主动地挑起镇压的，因为马上是就奥运了。你觉得gcd会蠢到主动挑起麻烦，丢自己的脸吗？他们白痴啊，搞臭自己？对于宗教自由，我去过西藏，他们的文化，宗教很好的尊重，包括他们的语言，至于要说汉语才能找到工作，哪你在外国不也是用英语找工作嘛？他们和汉人打交道，不说汉语说什么？不要忘记，在当地的小学，汉人小孩也学西藏话！！！！当然喇嘛们要求独立和dalai回去，不单单是宗教，而是政治了。这件事我只能说抱歉，如果达赖只是要尊重宗教，gcd为什么不让他回来呢?总比他到处搞臭中国好吧，可是问题是他的要求，gcd或者任何一个政党都难以接受，我上面已经提到了，你自己去看。。。这次的问题，还包括很多失业的，没有享受经济发展的少数藏人。我去西藏，很明显，做生意的，有工作的人和我们打交道的藏人，还是比较满意现在的生活的，因为大家生活好了呀！ 少数生活没有改变，没工作，看到别的藏人生活好了，他们不爽阿，就找个机会闹。。。这样的例子大多了，巴黎2005年的骚乱，就是这样。。。这就没有办法了。。。你以为打砸烧，巴黎市政府不会镇压？？？至于绝对的尊重西藏宗教传统，什么传统？？ 政教合一的传统？？我个人觉得，西藏喇嘛永远不会满意的，除非回到政教合一的时代！！ 西方人很多时候，很傻很天真阿，，，同样容易被洗脑。。。

3：The world needs to pay attention to the silent majority - their voices being suppressed by the vocal minority. 同意，但是如果你真的知道 majority 中国汉人和藏人的想法，你可能要失望哦。。。如果达赖喇嘛和西藏喇嘛继续这么闹下去，可能中国人会让世界都没有你们的容身之处哦，目前，基本上是人人痛恨了，想象中国人多要面子阿，准备了这么久的奥运，花了这么都投资在西藏，还这么闹。。。世界谁真真正正的提高了西藏人的生活水平，你想象就知道，西藏寿命从35到了60多了。你们能指望谁啊，华盛顿？ 巴黎？ 还是印度那个小镇阿？？？ 你以为你们又代表了多少的西藏人啊??? 凤凰卫视，曾子墨博客文章写道; 一个西藏人说，那些闹事的人，是0.1%的畜牲，我们不想闹事，我们想好好过日子。。。失望吗？当然，如果你是传说中的贵族后代，你当然永远不会改变你的看法，还有黄教喇嘛们，我也不指望他们喜欢汉人。。呵呵，我要是你们，也难以接受现实。。。

因为你会英语，所以你可能是在美国长大，从小接受美国自己民主+ 达赖的仇共的教育，也不指望改变你什么想法。我也不怎么喜欢gcd，但是，呵呵，现在你们一闹，西方媒体一闹，所有华人，包括痛恨64，痛恨gcd，痛恨贪污腐败，痛恨新闻不自由 的人，都站在北京一边了。。。

Perhaps some investigative journalism would help...... 这个嘛，看来你确实是生活在高傲的‘自由’世界里，以为西方媒体都是绝对公正 客观的，对了，伊拉克的大规模杀伤性武器找到了没？？？3年了吧，快了，BBC，CNN和华盛顿说，很快就找到了。。。

不是要和谈了嘛，建议达赖同学，现实点，调子不要太高，早点回来，好好管管喇嘛们，好好过日子。。

如果有人要求，我会翻译成英语，哎，但写母语就是舒畅阿。。。

by the way，建议 A-sing 同学好好多看看中立，客观的，一些学者的文章，比少数记者有水平多了， ：）

sorry about i write in chinese, i cann't explain those in english very well. if somebody could translate it, i will appraciate it..

and if some require, i could translate it into english...

Simon:

I predict the talk itself is just gesture from both sides, and would not possibly produce any anything before the Olympic games ends.

Dalai Lama clearly know that all of his suggestions could not possibly be enforced. The new zone is nothing but a fancy from himself, as the other regions other than Tibet has been heavily populated with other ethnic group, and in particular, Qinhai province has not been controled by Tibetans since 1930s. To create such a zone and move the other groups out is purely unthinkable. This either illustrates Dalai's lack of political wisdom, or as before, suggested that he has no intention of real talking.

For the second part, you would learn how adaptable China is when it really face some serious choice. China has been hostile to US since Korean War, but it takes nothing more than a week for Nixon to change everything.

I believe the best possible scenario is Dalai give up all his wild request, bring back his exiles to Tibet, and publicly announcing Tibet would not seek independence. Any other scenario is the last thing you can imagine to happen to China

ZW - Please dont feel sorry about writing in Chinese. Its ok. I am reasonably fluent in it, so can understand what you write.

I will respond in English (hope you dont mind)

1) You are right. China is not like Afganisthan. Not all Chinese who march are 'brainwashed' as you imagine. The reality is far from subtle than that. The years of education and Chinese nationalism taught in schools does affect your mind, with the ultimate effect of being brainwashed without you realising it.

2) Nothing justifies the attacks on Han chinese civilans in Tibet. Much of the violent acts were done by criminal gang associated with the PLA. The PLA arranged this to gain symphaty from the Chinese public and the legitimacy to crack down.

Rioting was also done by Tibeteans, but this was not as violent as shown in Chinese media. I condemn any actions that might have hurt innocent Hans in Tibet.

But you need to understand, the HAN chinese in Tibet are there to dominate and rule. Govt policy has increased immigration with pro-Han friendly business practices and discrimination against Tibeteans.

The situation in Tibet is similar to Aparthied South Africa. People have a right to protest and tanks should not be used on them.

3) Living standards have improved for the Tibeteans, but only those who give up their culture and swear allegiance to the Han Chinese CCP. If not, then they live in poverty. This is offcial govt policy - keep your critics weak, and bribe the traitors in opposing community. All imperial powers have done this.

4) Western media not entirely fair and objective when it involves a western govt going to war e.g. Iraq.

Other than that, it is reasonably fair (provided you read multiple sources to get a more balanced view). BBC has taken a pro China stance, and CNN (with the exception of Cafferty) has taken a neutral stance.

Western media is a neutral observor in Tibet as west not involved in Tibet - it is a China Tibet issue.

To A-Singh:
“You might be Manchurian,”
I AM MANCHURIAN, a Manchu different from the majority Han Chinese. I belong to the Whole Red Banner (正红旗) under the Eight-Banners System (Baqi or八旗 in Chinese).
“ but a few Manchurians have also sold out to the Chinese in return for financial and political rewards.”
As the knowledge of all my family members, that never happened. Before we immigrated to US, my father was the vice-president of a big state-run hospital. One of my cousins (a Manchu like me) is a space technology engineer. The content of his daily work are all classified as the top secrets of China. When I was a high school student in China, the governor of my province was Manchurian too. And, the reason, why he was able to be appointed as a high-class position, was largely because he was a minority citizen. According to Chinese law, one of the top officials of a province has to a minority citizen. Some of my relatives live on their poor lives, but it has nothing to do with the government. The current governor of Tibet is Tibetan.
“A few Manchurians have also benefitted from the growth.”
Like all the ethic groups, Manchurians are benefitted from the economy growth as well. My ancestors conquered the whole China as barbarian soldiers. Given the governmental policies favoring minority students, we Manchurians are most educated ethic group by percentage now. For by percentage, I mean that the percentage of Manchurian population, who accepted higher education, is the highest in China, even higher than Han Chinese in percentage.
“you might regret your treachory on your death bed.”
Did you realize how I silly you were, when calling me a treachery of my ethnicity? Given the facts above, we Manchurians classify our ethnicity as Chinese primarily, and then Manchurian secondarily. The one thing, which could make me a treachery, is doing nothing when you are attacking China here.

@A-Singh,
I know why you are so anti-Chinese or anti-communist. Its because you are proud as an Indian, but unfortunately your country was defeated by the Chinese (Communists) during the 1962 border war. Consequently, you have a deep, festering hatred for the Chinese nation, a country that has humiliated your country. You want to settle scores in a way you see fit, and you find this forum an appropriate venue to vent your anger towards China and her people.
I feel for you.

Curry Singh, let me give you a piece of good advice.
The Chinese, of all peoples, are well aware of the many problems they face. But the Chinese have good objectives and postive attitude; they are working hard everyday to solve their problems, reduce poverty, raise the living standards of everyone including the Tibetans, educate the young, send astronauts into space for scientific research, etc. For all the hard work of the Chinese, China has now pulled ahead of India in many areas.
Now let us look at Curry Singh, a typical Indian, I suppose. Instead of doing productive work to improve the lot of his compatriots, he prefers to be somebody's (a western country?) stooge and spend hours and hours writing garbage to badmouth his country's neighbor, much like the large number of Tibetan monks who spend all day chanting nonsense and live on handouts.
If all indians are like Curry Singh, India will lag even farther behind China. Pretty soon, India will be so far behind that it won't even be able to suck up the dust kicked up by the Chinese.

AnonZ; zestndo:

What you writes clearly makes me laugh. Both of you are so funny. Unfotunately, this is not a comedy club.

Your statement are based on CCP propoganda and Han Chauvenism mindset - ignorant and self obsessed people who construct enemies of their ethnicities.

You also draw your conclusions from imperfect and lack of adequate information.

Please refer to my earlier post on reverse indroctination that might you helps remove this infectious virus from your minds:

The way to peace is simple:

Step 1: The Chinese need to admit that Han chauvinism exists in the education system and has infected the Chinese mindset.

Step 2: De-construct Han chauvinism explaining the flaws of this form of nationalism.

Step 3: CCP to introduce a new discourse in nationalism that is more compasionate to all. This must include the completion elimination of Xenophobia in all litreture in schools and universities in China!! (Chinese at the moment is is one most racist countries in the world)

But for the two of you, the communist virus has already started mutating inside your brains, thus clouding rational decision making.

To put it bluntly - you guys are beyond cure. Incremental reverse indroctrination will not work, and shock threapy (all truths releaved) will probably kill you or result in permanent brain damage.

Han chauvinism is a deeply infectious and deadly virus, second only to HIV.

I just feel really funny, if just the exact similar things happened to UK about Northern Ireland or Scotland, to US about Alaska, and to Germany about Sorbs. The governments and citizens will react more differently, Really funny, to learn how many natives slaughtered by them. Oh, surely, then these governments don't need to talk and deal with human rights there any more. Good lessons, Simmon.

A-Singh

LOL, then shall American, Canadian, Australian admit their White first concepts which caused slaughters and extermination of American Indian and Aboriginals who were native, and dominated there in any area,English became countries' language there. Maybe they did things evil enough to don't let victim survive, then no opposition and human rights problems. If you really care about racism and human rights. Fight for Free Alaska,Aboriginal,Quebec... come on, human rights defender!

To AnonZ:

Hi, calm down, due. It is no wrong to eat with curry in the food. Actually, the China-stylized curry chicken has been on the menu of many Chinese restautant.

To A-Singh:

As an Indian, or whoever anyone else, it is no question that you can not call the shots on Chinese internal issues. Therefore, somethng, like "you Chinese need to... ...", is not proper in your post.
The central point in you last post is the so-called Han Chauvinism in Chinese education systm. However, I do not think this "Han Chauvinism" actually exists there. It was 6 years age. When I was in my senior high, there were 45 students in my class. Including me, 3 of the 45 were minority citizens, two Manchurian and one (Chinese) Korean. We all got along with the rest Han students very well. And, the other Manchurian was even in a secret relationship with a Han girl in our class. Why would they be in a secret relationship? No political or ethic reasons. Just because at that time, any romantic relationship was seriously forbidden in the school. If Han Chauvinism really exist in Chinese education system, we three got to be beaten up everyday by the Han students around. Because we are not Han, and additionally, my ancestors committed one of the worst massacre in history by killing millions of Han Chinese during the war conquering the whole China. Of course, we were not beaten by anyone. Instead of, when we graduated, we three were all admitted by college with much lower grades.

Curry Singh, believe me (by all indications, my IQ is way above yours). My good advice to you is true truism.
Other than repeating the same old shibboleths you have been spouting for ages, you are unable to refute any of the valid points I made.

AnonZ : You want to go down the route of calling your Chow-mean Chan, but I am not gona stoop to your low standards.

You can hide behind the screen and engage in name calling, but face to face, you little man would not dare.

As I said before you Hans cant argue with me on facts - and I put some more in front of you.

Invasion and Refugees

China's invasion by 40,000 troops in 1950 was an act of unprovoked aggression. There is no generally accepted legal basis for China's claim of sovereignty.

Ten years later 100,000 Tibetans fled with the Dalai Lama, Tibet's spiritual and temporal ruler.

In 1993 the UN High Commissioner for Refugees handled 3,700 Tibetan cases.

Chinese Administration of Tibet

By the 17-Point Agreement of 1951 China undertook not to interfere with Tibet's existing system of government and society, but never kept these promises in eastern Tibet and in 1959 reneged on the treaty altogether.

China has renamed two out of Tibet's three provinces as parts of the Chinese provinces of Qinghai, Gansu, Sichuan and Yunnan, and renamed the remaining province of U'Tsang as Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR).

There is no evidence to support China's claim that TAR is autonomous: all local legislation is subject to approval of the central government in Beijing; all local government is subject to the regional party, which in Tibet has never been run by a Tibetan. Much enforcement of Chinese law is ad hoc and subject to local interpretation due to wording being deliberately ambiguous.

The Human Cost

Reprisals for the 1959 National Uprising alone involved the elimination of 87,000 Tibetans by the Chinese count, according to a Radio Lhasa broadcast of 1 October 1960. Tibetan exiles claim that 430,000 died during the Uprising and the subsequent 15 years of guerrilla warfare.

Some 1.4 million Tibetans are estimated to have been killed by the Chinese since 1950.

The International Commission of Jurists concluded in its reports, 1959 and 1960, that there was a prima facie case of genocide committed by the Chinese upon the Tibetan nation. These reports deal with events before the Cultural Revolution. Chinese Justice: Protest and Prisons

Exile sources estimate that up to 260,000 people died in prisons and labour camps between 1950 and 1984.

Unarmed demonstrators have been shot without warning by Chinese police on five occasions between 1987 and 1989. Amnesty International believes that "at least 200 civilians" were killed by the security forces during demonstrations in this period. There are also reports of detainees being summarily executed.

Some 3,000 people are believed to have been detained for political offences since September 1987, many of them for writing letters, distributing leaflets or talking to foreigners about the Tibetans' right to independence.

The number of political detainees in Lhasa's main prison, Drapchi, is reported to have doubled between 1990 and 1994. The vast majority of political inmates are monks or nuns. A political prisoner in Tibet can now expect an average sentence of 6.5 years.

Over 230 Tibetans were detained for political offences in 1995, a 50% increase on 1994, bringing the total in custody to over 600.

Detailed accounts show that the Chinese conducted a campaign of torture against Tibetan dissidents in prison from March 1989 to May 1990. However, beatings and torture are still regularly used against political detainees and prisoners today. Such prisoners are held in sub-standard conditions, given insufficient food, forbidden to speak, frequently held incommunicado and denied proper medical treatment.

Beatings and torture with electric shock batons are common; prisoners have died from such treatment. In 1992, Palden Gyatso, a monk who had been tortured by the Chinese for over 30 years, bribed prison guards to hand over implements of torture. The weapons, smuggled out of Tibet, were displayed in the west in 1994 and 1995.

Despite China having ratified a number of UN conventions, including those relating to torture, women, children and racial discrimination, the Chinese authorities have been repeatedly violating these conventions in China and Tibet.

Nearly all prisoners arrested for political protest are beaten extensively at the time of arrest and initial detention. Serious physical maltreatment has also been recorded in a significant proportion of cases. In the period 1994-1995, three nuns died shortly after release from custody as a result of ill-treatment and torture in detention.

The Chinese have refused to allow independent observers to attend so-called public trials. Prison sentences are regularly decided before the trial. Fewer than 2% of cases in China are won by the defence.

Control of Education

Chinese replaced Tibetan as the official language. Despite official pronouncements, there has been no practical change in this policy. Without an adequate command of Chinese, Tibetans find it difficult to get work in the state sector.

Secondary school children are taught all classes in Chinese. Although English is a requirement for most university courses, Tibetan school children cannot learn English unless they forfeit study of their own language. Many children are sent away to China for education, usually for a period of seven years.

Since 1994, the Chinese have strengthened their drive to re-educate young Tibetans about their cultural past at all levels of Tibetan education. They use a distorted history programme which omits reference to an independent Tibet.

At school, no unrehearsed discussion of Tibetan cultural, religious and social issues is allowed. Party positions must actively be upheld. Chinese culture is emphatically promoted.

Religious Intolerance

Religious practice was forcibly suppressed until 1979, and up to 6,000 monasteries and shrines were destroyed.

The 1982 Constitution of the People's Republic of China guarantees freedom of religious belief, but China seeks to restrict the numbers of monks and nuns entering monasteries. The restrictions prevent children under 18 from joining monasteries.

After serving arbitrary sentences imposed for pro-independence activities, nuns and monks released from prison are frequently banned from rejoining their nunneries.

New guidelines drawn up in 1994 instigated a policy of renewed religious suppression and attempts to discredit the religious authority of the Dalai Lama.

In 1995 the Chinese authorities rejected the child recognised by the Dalai Lama as the rebirth of the Panchen Lama, and installed their own candidate.

Chinese Immigrants Flood Tibet

Beijing has admitted a policy of deliberately encouraging Chinese to settle on a long-term basis in Tibet.

The influx of Chinese nationals has destabilised the economy. Forced agricultural modernisations led to extensive crop failures and Tibet's first recorded famine (1960-1962), in which 340,000 Tibetans died. Tibetan farms and grazing lands have been confiscated and incorporated into collectivised and communal farms.

Resettlement of Chinese migrants has placed Tibetans in the minority in many areas, including Lhasa, causing chronic unemployment among Tibetans.

Official figures put the number of non-Tibetans in the TAR at 79,000. Independent research puts the figure at 250,000 to 300,000, and for the whole of Tibet 5 to 5.5 million Chinese to 4.5 million Tibetans. In Kham and Amdo the Chinese outnumber Tibetans many times over.

Economic Development Plans

Beijing wants to see 10% economic growth per year from the Tibetan region. New wealth is being channelled into Chinese hands as shown by the 1994 announcement of a railway for Tibet. The rail project will speed both the influx of Chinese migrants as well as the extraction of Tibet's mineral reserves.

According to the TAR Economic Planning Commission's plan, the main thrust of China's economic activities in Tibet in the 1990s will be 'the exploitation of mineral resources'. Mining and other mineral extraction is the largest economic activity in both U'Tsang and Amdo.

Chinese traders are favoured by lower tax assessments and the dominant position of Chinese in government administration. Chinese officials are paid various bonuses for working in Tibet.

China is pushing to incorporate Tibet into its new market economy by boosting agricultural output. Traditional barley farming, suited to the climate, is diminishing as new crops are introduced (sometimes with foreign aid backing).

The Environment and the Military

Estimates of deforestation vary, but most reckon that at least half Tibet's natural forest cover has gone since the Chinese occupation. An extensive road-building programme has been opening up the previously inaccessible areas of forest. Tourists have seen up to 60 trucks per hour loaded with timber leaving Tibet - proof of deforestation on a large scale, in contravention of UN Resolution 1803 (XVII) 1962, which establishes the right of peoples to permanent sovereignty over their natural resources.

The Indian Government reports that three nuclear missile sites, and an estimated 300,000 troops are stationed on Tibetan territory.

Throughout the 1960s and 1970s the Chinese operated a large nuclear weapons research centre at the Ninth academy in Haibai prefecture, Qinghai province.

China has admitted to dumping nuclear waste on the Tibetan plateau. There is a 20 km2 dump for radioactive pollutants near Lake Kokonor, the largest lake on the Tibetan plateau.

TOKYO, April 27, 2008 (AFP) — Japan's Foreign Minister Masahiko Komura reiterated on Sunday calls for China to increase transparency over Tibet, saying it was difficult to believe there was no suppression of human rights there.

Komura said greater transparency would help ease international suspicion about human rights abuses in the remote Himalyan region, where Beijing's crackdown on recent unrest has sparked foreign concern.

"There is a wide gap between what the side of the Dalai Lama is saying and what the Chinese side is saying. I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle," Komura said.

"I find it impossible to believe there has been no suppression on human rights, or problems of human rights, at all.

"But there is no knowing how far it has gone," Komura told a Sunday programme at the private Fuji television network.

"Unless they have transparency, it can't be helped that the world suspects the side in power is doing it (suppressing human rights)," he said.

Komura said earlier his month that he urged his Chinese counterpart during talks here to "increase transparency and stressed the importance of dialogue" to resolve the Tibetan problem.

But China's foreign minister rebuffed the call, saying he told Komura "that the Tibetan issue is China's domestic issue".

The largest protests in nearly 20 years broke out last month in Tibet against Beijing's controversial rule in the predominantly Buddhist region.

Tibetan leaders say the Chinese crackdown left more than 150 dead.

Beijing says no one died as it restored order, but that Tibetan rioters killed 20 people.

China has repeatedly blamed people close to Tibet's spirirual leader, the Dalai Lama, for orchestrating the unrest, which it says is a deliberate attempt to sabotage the upcoming Beijing Olympics.

The Dalai Lama denies the charges and says he only wants "meaningful autonomy" for the Himalayan region to preserve Tibet's language, culture and environment within China, and does not seek independence.

China on Friday offered to hold fresh talks with a Dalai Lama envoy over the issue which threatens to overshadow the runup to the Games in August.

Komura also reiterated Japan has yet to decide whether to send anyone to the Olympic opening ceremony but confirmed it would not boycott it over the violence in Tibet.

"It's only France which has talked about the link" between the Tibet issue to attending the opening ceremony, he added.

Komura also said he was "grateful" to police for security during the Japanese leg of the Olympic torch relay on Saturday.

Protesters hurled rubbish and flares at the torch and brawled with Chinese supporters. Six people were arrested in scuffles during the run in Nagano, but they were neither Chinese nor Tibetan, the minister said.

It is somewhat amusing to see anti-chinese going around in the web and grab some statistics from wikipedia and just turn around and lecture people, people of Chinese-descent, or living in China right now!
Talking about ignorant Americans..
haha.

I don't really understand why Asingh spends so much time around here, Chinese did spanked the indians' ass back in 1967, but they do not really care that much( very little is mentioned in the media as far as I know)
so forget about the humiliation and defeat, after all, you guys can still boast about being the "biggest democracy"......

What did I say? I said other than repeating the same old shibboleths you have been spouting for ages, you are unable to refute any of the valid points I made.

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AGAIN, THANKS VERY MUCH BBC AND YOUR "AXIS-OF-EVILS" WESTERN MEDIA ALLIES. YOU GUYS HAVE AWAKEN THE DRAGON! WHEN THE UGLY OLYMPICS TORCH LEGS HAPPENED IN LONDON AND PARIS, CHINESE PEOPLE WERE THEN VERY "NAIVE," CAUGHT-IN-SURPRISE BY THE HORRIBLE TREATMENTS AGAINST THE TORCH AND THE ANTI-CHINA ATTACKS. BUT NOW, WE'VE LEARNED, WE'VE LEARNED SO MUCH -- THANKS AGAIN THE "BEST" WESTERN MEDIA GURUS -- WE WON'T BE TOO NICE ANYMORE TO PEOPLE WHO ARE BAD TOWARD US. WE'VE STOOD UP AND UNITED AND WE CAN BE VERY "SPICY" TOO IN RESPONSE TO THESE COWARD THUGS AND THEIR FRIENDS. MANY UNFRIENDLY PEOPLE HAS PUSHED US, THE CHINESE, TOO FAR TO THE EDGE.

THANKS MUCH FOR HELPING US UNITED ONCE AGAIN IN THE HISTORY OF OUR GREAT NATION. WE'LL FIGHT ALL THESE EVILS WHO WANT TO RUIN US. OLYMPICS IS OUR AFTER-THOUGHT FOR NOW. WHAT WE WANT NOW IS THE TRUTH AND OUR DIGNITY.

IF THE RECENT "RAISE OF THE CHINESE PEOPLE" AROUND THE WORLD WAS PART OF YOUR ANTI-CHINA POLITICIANS' STRATEGIES?!? WELL, THEN, CONGRATULATIONS! YOU'VE REACHED YOUR GOALS! BUT IF IT'S NOT? THEN WELCOME TO THE NEW GREAT CHINA -- WE WON'T BACK DOWN TO ANY EVILS ANYMORE.

SOME EVILS REALLY DESERVE A NICE KUNG-FU KICK IN THEIR ASSES.
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NOW PEOPLE CAN SEE, THE RAISE OF CHINESE PEOPLE IS A SPONTANEOUS THING -- NOT A BRAINWASHED PRODUCT BY THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT'S PROPAGANDA!

TODAY FACTS: THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT WANTS A GOOD FACE AND THE SUCCESSFUL OLYMPICS; WHILE THE ORDINARY CHINESE WANT THE DIGNITY AND THE TRUTH!

Here is a question: suppose the Dalai Lama just wants to be spiritual leader and wants to go back and does not recant his insistence that Tibet never had been an integral part of China? Would the CCP deal?

I think the reason the Dalai Lama has proven so emotional to Chinese in and outside of the country is because Tibetan nationalism threatens Chinese nationalism as we know it. If Tibetans are no longer part the Chinese family, why should the other 55 be?

So the struggle here is not just territorial or political control - it's about the very identity of Chinese nationalism.

I profess I'm not an expert in nationalism. Chinese nationalism probably sprouted in large part to foreign attacks and internal turmoils of the last century and a half. But there must be some sort of Chinese consciousness before that - since China - unlike Europe - has been politically unified for thousands of years - long before nationalism as we understand it today sprouted in English some 300-400 years ago.

Ideas? Would CCP deal if Dalai gives up any political control but clings to Tibetan nationalism?

A Singh,
Did I tell you the story about the snake and the Indian?
When you see the snake and the Indian, you kill the Indian first.

That's over the top, zestndo...

@Zhihua,
Sorry, its not my normal self to make such degradatory remarks but this guy, A-Singh, is just too much. He has already made his point, but his boring regurgitation needs a firm response!

Allen Yu

There could be a deal under some conditions:
1). Daliar Lama gives up all his claims on Tibet.
2). Only serves as a spiritual leader of his sect of Tibetan buhdism.
3). He agrees only live in Beijing and only occasional visit to Tibet.
4). He can live in Tibet permanently only after he is dead.

To be honest, how many people in Tibet really cares about him except those Lamas from the three major Monastories of his sect? All other sect of living Budhas would rather see Dalai Lama gone forever.

I can almost see the party’s welcome committee singing Hello, Dalai!, to the Tibetan side before ``talks'' begin.
Now that monk asks for ``substantial talks’’. What can be substantial, when you have been unable to make statements of any substance.
Cultural genocide is a great soundbite, but china has substantially refuted that.
Plus, even in this age of digital camera phones, not even a low-rise picture of the 150 alleged victims.
Not least, there hasn’t been a parade of tortured and maimed tibetans giving teary-eyed testimony before a gullible american Congress, unlike that loopy chinese diplomat from australia who claimed that China had sent assassination squads sent after him.
China’s Tibetans have grievances (who doesn’t? Income tax just cheated me of a month’s salary) wish for a bigger say in development, and want to channel their views through an alternative voice besides the party-appointed Tibetan leaders.
But La Ma is still only just a third party, he left Tibet long ago.
He’s not on top of the emigre situation, and even less able to cope with fissures among Chinese Tibetans that will emerge.
Autonomy or whatever, La Ma is not the right man to lead. Like Tibet itself, he is the product of brilliant marketing that has embedded a romantic vision of that land, and the man, in the Western mind.
He may be destined to spend his last years as that. Life is cruel.
Anyway, La Ma is probably the last man left standing in this set of musical chairs by Western and Communist capitalists.
France is chastised (and promised a huge order of Airbuses, environment pays), China helps Sarzoky out of a tight order by ``talking’’ to
La Ma.
Now Junior and Sharz tell their human rights activists: see, they are talking! Beijing, here we come.
I don’t think I can Lhasa this madness out till August. Here, Mr Simon Elegant, you can have my front-row seat on this bun fight. I’ll take a slow boat to Cheung Chau or something, and eat some...fresh peaches.
BTW: So you were threatened by anonymous postings. Some bloggers have been known to adopt other monikers on their own blogs. Not you, of course.
But if times in China get too interesting, you know the drill. As Lauren Bacall famously said, just holler if you need anything (like fake designer luggage to pack, or bucket-shop flights). ;-o

But gooblygook1 - the key question is why should the communist part decide who the 'correct' representative of the Tibetan people is? If as you claim, the majority of Tibetans are happy and safe, then why wouldnt you hold elections and let the Tibetans chose their leaders? The Communist Party can then hold their discussions with those leaders. Everybody happy!

The way the rest of the world sees it right now - Tibetans everywhere in the world are screaming that they are being persecuted. The govt. of China says this is all nonsense - But does not allow independant journalists to freely enter Tibet and report. And if the world media says that this seems unfair - suddenly we have "hurt the feelings of the Chinese people"!

Referendum? Unlikely. China is a big country – with 1.3-1.6 billion people. If anytime a political group (backed by outside powers) stirs up trouble and china need to hold a referendum, it will not be able to govern.

ummm Allen Yu -

1. an election is not always a referendum.

2. Very large/ populous countries reguarly hold elections in the rest of the developed & developing world

3. My point was about an election in just Tibet (not the rest of China) - as the Tibetans are the once who seem to have a problem. The rest of the Chinese people seem by and large happy with the single party rule.

4. You cant not hold elections - because its too cumbersome - and then say the Dalai Lama is not the true representative. Either hold elections, or the rest of the world will assume that the Dalai Lama is the leader of the Tibetan people.

B-Singh,
Hi. We don't need you to come and tell the Chinese people what to do. Now, for one thing, democracy in India is nothing fantastic. People get killed because its a free-for-all. Sikhs kill Hindus, Hindus kill Muslims, etc etc. And Indian people are quite warlike. The partition of India in 1947 resulted in thousands of death, and since then has resulted in at least 2 wars. And, Indians are the ones who invented the caste system thousands of years ago, and still being practised here. Have you considered the denial of human rights in perpetuity for the harijans? Before you talked about human rights in Tibet, please examine your own backyard, and try to alleviate the sufferings of your less fortunate countrymen. After you have done that, you are free to comment on other countrie's shortcomings.

Zestndo -
Nobody is 'commenting on China's shortcomings'. India is not perfect. and neither is any other country on this planet. But you cant use that as an excuse to not do the right thing. You cant say i will kill Tibetans. And the World cant say anything because in the past every country has killed someone or the other. Thats stupid.

Or is it that you cant contemplate elections - because you know the Communist Party will never agree to those. And so you have to come up with some random arguement - or attack India etc.

Just sit back and think. Wouldnt it be the best for all - if a simple election identified who the best representatives of the Tibetan people are. And then any grieveances could be sorted out betwene the Communist Party and the Tibetan elected leaders - without the meddling of US, Dalai Lama etc. Outsiders get the chance to meddle because nobody knows what the Tibetans want!

also just to disappoint you - I am not an Indian. I just chose the name inline with A-Singh :-) Wont tell you which country i belong to - as you will then google my country and try to find out the 100 things wrong with my country. That doesnt solve China's problem though.

B-Singh - you win! We'll hold an election in Tibet - and every other province, county, district in China ... and India ... and Iraq, everywhere in the world...

And just to be fair - we'll do so every 4 years. Just to make sure there are no hidden oppressions throughout the world.

Now the hard is drawing the electoral districts - because how you draw it can greatly impact the results - how big should they be - should they be along ethnic lines, religious lines, etc.

Ok - we'll get a commission to do that. But we'll have to have an election to get the commission, of course...

Allen Yu - Lets start with the election in just Tibet first. We can worry about other parts of China, India, Iraq etc. later. (BTW India and most of the rest of world DO have regular 4/5 year elections. Iraq just did. Only key exceptions are the Muslim world and China. You ar