The Olympic Torch Hits London: Fair and Balanced Coverage by Chinese News Media?

The white men just do not get it at all~despite the seemingly endless localised conflicts here & there amongst the peoples not of the Caucasian-kind, the fact remains, & it is well ingrained into our psyche, that the West is the one & only most depotically evil civilisation since time immemorial. This is the evil which created, practised & benefitted from colonialism, racism, slavery, apartheid, wholesale racial genocides (against natives in North America & Australasia), illegal land grabs, looting of native resources &, gosh, all other evils you-name-it-&-they-have-it! This is THE evil which continues to hijack the term "international communities" as if their opinions constitute the majority of world opinion but in actual fact, the proportion of Caucasian population constitutes only a tiny less-than-10% of the entire world's peoples. They are also so self-consumed with their own propaganda to assume outragiously that theirs are always the correct ones in all aspects of human debate. They cannot be proved more wrong time & again. They call Fidel Castro an evil despot but the majority of the world thinks that he is a Cuban patriot & hero. The same goes with Hugo Chavez & Moreles. They name Iran one of the axis of evil but in actual fact, the Iranian president is the only head of state duly elected by the Iranian people in the entire Middle East. They call Hamas, Hezbollah terrorists but most of the world believes that Israel IS the terrorist. They now try to insinuade the Chinese leadership as evil thugs who persecute their own people but they don't realise this very leadership is the authentic group of leaders who savaged & rebuilt China from scratch after almost 200 years of unrelenting decline & humiliation of the Chinese nationhood & that, given a free-for-all poll conducted right now, Hu & Wen partnership can literally sweep any Chinese election hands down. There are other endless examples too lengthy to mention. In the same context, they present the Dalai Lama as a benevolent, charismatic character who is the victim of oppression & he is only out for good, but conveniently ignoring the kind of rotten, medieval theocracy that he practised during his helm. They just jumped on the Chinese cops/paramilitary forces hoping to smell bloods & thus yell "bloody crackdown" while conveniently overlooking the kind of racist attacks these so-called innocent monks inflicted on innocent bystanders. Wow! what a hyprocrite the West truly is is beyond words! Shame on the white man! Shame on your civilisation! Mind you, for all you may imagine, the bulk of the world is never gonna buy into your propaganda!

Well, I don't know what mainlander has smoked, but he's right about one thing, all these things are not about human rights in China any more, it's just a reflection of the anti-china, anti-chinese sentiment in the west. Do anybody believe they really give a damn about the human right in China? Of course not, they are just picking on anything they can find to inflict their hate. If there was not human right problem in China, I am 100% sure they will find something else to protest anyways, they just hate China, that's all.

Simon,

So what point are you trying to make here? Are you telling us it is acceptable for TIME magazine to be always negatively biased in coverage towards China just because the People’s Daily is always positively biased?

The People’s Daily NEVER MADE ANY SECRET that it is the CCP’s mouthpiece. As such, the average Chinese reader knows it is propaganda. Whatever is written on the People’s Daily is taken with a grain of salt by the public.

But TIME magazine as well as other Western media always make the PRETENSE if not the ACTUAL CLAIM that they are objective in coverage. So you think the Western media should not be held to a higher standard? If you make it clear that you are in fact the mouthpiece of the CIA or the US State Department, then I assure you that you won’t receive any criticism from your Chinese readers. But so far, you haven't made that revelation.

Why do you care about London so much and totally ignored how other parts of the world react to the torch? That's the kind of bias we are talking about. The problem is you never pay attention to people of much greater number in the world and your notion about "international community" is merely the scrappy small West. Why are you silent about Almaty, where the torch indeed became showcase of national pride, which is very likely to be the case in most subsequent torch rally cities? Did Almaty even get a mention in western media? It's the capital of a country larger than many european countries combined. Have you guys ever heard its name, and if so spared any effort to let the American public be aware of its humble existence?

The dramatic protests in London did nothing helpful but only entrenched the anger and distrust against the whole West in China. And biased news reporting from both sides would only widen the gap between the two camps.

Yes, if these white trashes had Chinese style education they could never be talking so much rubish!!! It is very obvious to Chinese that this TIME is just the westerners way of trying to make a shame of the new China because we will have the most gold medals! We Chinese don't want people like this Simon in our country anymore and if he is going to talk many bad things about China it is beter that he stay out of our affairs and maybe mind his business. You see we Chinese never criticise about Iraq but you big nose always have to go sticking around China's business. If you are not a Chinese or had Chinese style education no comment please because you just want to make trouble and embarass!!! Go away!

No doubt it's all the Chinese readers' fault here. They should have long realized that TIME magazine is no more than American propaganda as much as the People's Daily is mainland government propaganda. The two are indeed equivalent in their objectivity, except they are working towards opposite ends.

An interesting comparison. Are you suggesting that we should treat west media as the People's Daily? I think many Chinese have already learned that recently.

I don't think the biggest losers are the Chinese people. The biggest losers may well be the Tibetans. If anything, like you say, the Chinese people will feel bitter, and bitter people are not likely to give you concessions. Most Westerners support independence for Tibet because the Western press has supported Tibetan independence since the 1950s, and has been repeating it over and over again. Eventually most Westerners will be influenced and believe that Tibetan independence is a righteous cause. There is nothing much we can do about it as it has already been engraved into their subconscious mind. Westerners are inherently bias against China because of their press.
We can't change their mind. Just make sure the Western press doesn't change the minds of the Chinese citizens.

Guys, check this link out, discussion at the PBS forum:

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=68073

The "pro-Tibet lobby"... "push an essentially masturbatory discourse that festishises a virtual Tibet as its object of desire, whilst projecting Oedipal fears onto a rival Han who are consequently demonised in waves of hyperbolic spasms."

Why are all the comments trying to change the subject? The subject is that the media in China is not showing the whole picture. Regardless of what you think about the Western media, can this fact be denied?

hey,Simon Elegant,it's you again.how are you doing,mate?

your photo is still in my bolg and available for people to see.

where is you friend jone? do you have his(or her, or its) photo?

Well, in fact, CCTV has reported the chaos in London in the morning news, both in CCTV4 and CCTV news.
Considering that both China Daily and CCTV are Chinese government's "propaganda" as westerners claimed,I think the information Chinese government giving regarding to this event is quite balanced.
BTW, if the great and glorious TIME is a "fair" and "balanced" "free" media, why haven't I see anything POSITIVE about China these days? Is there nothing good happened in China recently? Or u guys are just not paid to see these things?

Something simon elegant doesn't get is that since China Daily is so "government", then why are u comparing the great independent TIME with it? U "free media" r supposed to be fair, but u wasn't. Then don't expect us to trust u, just like China Daily. It's simple. If u have chose to be a bitch, then don't pretend to be a virgin to disgust us.

Good News: They have found a great way to protect the flame in Paris: Douse it !!

And Paris police had to deploy over 2000 police to protect the flame from a "tiny number" of protesters. Poor use of resources. They should have used the police to cheer the flame instead.

Why don't they just put the doused flame on a plane and fly around, instead of having it on the ground. People may see it.

While the freak show is going on, I think one thing people and media like Simon Elegant has missed is that, no matter what claim they have or how they bad mouth the Chinese government, they had not realized they had been dangerously playing with fire. They are deeply hurting the feelings of 1.4 billion common Chinese people, the same group of people they supposed to advocate human rights for. They can protest or shout whatever glorious slogan they have but they are really enjoying the hurt they are putting on the Chinese nation and people.

When they take quote from all those foreign Tibetan or unnamed Uyghur peasant in Xinjiang, what about the voice of many many more other common Chinese folks? Aren’t they human too? Apparently they do not care. Their intention has never been so clear.

Olympics or not, I don’t think China will ever close the door and stop her marching toward modernization and her effort to provide a better life for Chinese people. However, if the West wants to make an enemy out of China, they may just have their wish fulfilled.

Stop pretending you want nothing but good for the “Chinese people”. You have no rights to represent us and stop being a self righteous liar.

"...the West is the one & only most depotically evil civilisation since time immemorial."
Posted by Mainlander | April 7, 2008 6:06 AM

Sorry guy, gotta dispute that. Simply put, people -everywhere- (of all nationalities, races, classes, upbringings, whatever) have the potential to be @$$holes to each other. White people didn't invent it and neither did brown people.

I dunno anything about the Olympic Torch relay (I've been playing FFXI all weekend....), but when I saw one (like, 10 years ago) it was pretty boring. The poor guy had just run up a big hill in my town which always makes me tired just walking up it. It was kinda funny to see the guys riding the coco-cola cooler bikes panting while they walked their bikes up the hill though >.>

I'd love to see the show desribed by the People's Daily though... sounds cool even if it didn't go off as planned :^/

right on, xchaos360. More and more people in China are turning away from the west, it's unfortunate because all we Chinese can see is that westerner using the so called human rights and so on to humiliate Chinese as a group. I don't think anybody would mind helpful advice, but it has become a farce. As I mentioned before, this just simply a break out of sino-phobia hysteria, and there is no use arguing with any of those so called human rights warrior, because human rights is already off the topic.

sara, you are right about mainlander. But the unfortunate reality is, the western media is hurting the feelings of moderate chinese people, and it gives room for the extreme ones to grow.

"Yes, if these white trashes had Chinese style education they could never be talking so much rubish!!!"

I guess the kind of style you're talking about is where your teacher beat the crap out of you if you could answer a Math problem then your parents beat the heaven out of you again because they found out that your teacher had beaten you and think that you're failing school. Education Chinese style!

*if you could answer a Math
- it's couldn't

"More and more people in China are turning away from the west"

- guess no more Chinese guy delivering your 5 dollar lo mein for you.

To the article author and the editors of TIME China blog:

You have just participated in the problem rather than reporting on it. I suggest you hire some people who actually speak chinese and can read chinese news before continuing to quote the people's daily as the only source of Chinese news.

You have made it appear that China does not report the truth of the protests, yet one look at http://sports.qianlong.com/ makes it plainly clear that the news is being reported in China honestly.

Until now I have been impressed with TIME's attempts to show both sides of the issue, but this time you have compared right to center, leaving out the left entirely. Very poor reporting, very poor blogging.

Clown_in_you_face: please learn how to read, write and speak (either English or Chinese) before you comment here.

By the way, you haven't fixed the "bug" in your nick name - just a kind reminder.

This Olympics torch relay was an embarrassing disaster in London and Paris because of the protests. The next city is San Francisco, the only city in the US on the tour of the Olympics torch. Good lord, San Francisco is practically the epicenter of Tibet protesters in the US. No doubt the protesters will be just as foul as the ones in London and Paris. I can understand the mouthpiece not reporting on this initially because these protesters are pretty much spitting on China which naturally would inflame the people of China. But it looks like this disrespect will continue throughout the western countries, so the mouthpiece cannot ignore it forever. I never cared for protesters, they often don't know anything about what they protest.

So, this really shows that Simon reads selectively. He always filters some information which is NOT good for his point of view and keep those which fit into his theory.

Simon's life must be full of pain, because he could see the truth but he has to distorted it in order to please his boss or some readers. If Simon believes in God, he should know that he would go to hell when he dies - those so-called awards would not help at all.

Right, Cavazos. That's true. Those so-called protesters always have no idea what they are doing and what they really want.

To canadian: china did report on the protests and this article gives the impression it did not. But I read chinese news every day, and I know that it did, in fact, report on the protests.

May I suggest, people out there interested in this topic can install the google translation toolbar and read the chinese news sites easily. English western news is giving an entirely incorrect accounting of what is happening in China regarding reporting on the protests and policy about tibet.

And no, I'm not chinese, I am not of sinoan decent. I am a westerner willing to consider the possiblity that a language and cultural barrier prevents proper reporting in the west about China in general.

The following links are websites inside Chinese borders that reported on the London protests.

http://209.85.135.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://sports.qianlong.com/torch.htm

http://2008.sohu.com/20080407/n256123615.shtml

and the official news agency of China, even offers an english language version, you don't even need google to read it, and there is a complete video of the TV news that day:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-04/07/content_7933609.htm

If you people all believe that China did not report to its citizens about the protests in London and Paris, you are wrong.

I wish everyone would seek information for yourselves from both sides of the pond before deciding what you want to believe about this.

Reporters will be kept out of tibet during the torch run there for their own protection. Any responsible country would do the same. China claimed tibet only after England occupied Lhasa in 1904. People need to read a little history to understand why Tibet is part of China.

FYI here is an english version of Xinhua news that reports on the Paris torch run and protests.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-04/08/content_7936028.htm

Sword,

I'm so glad that a little error in my name annoys you so bad, it brings so much joy in my boring life here at work. So are you some kind of Chinese aristocrat who knows so much the English and Chinese language? If you know that Simon will go to hell, then where do you think you will go?

And BTW, western media also deliberately ignored the other side of the story. There are a good many people out there showing support to the torch relay on the route. And also countless people speak for the Chinese on the street as well. Why are they virtually completely ignored? It seems only those violent disturbances deserve a voice.

Zestndo said:
Most Westerners support independence for Tibet because the Western press has supported Tibetan independence since the 1950s, and has been repeating it over and over again. Eventually most Westerners will be influenced and believe that Tibetan independence is a righteous cause. There is nothing much we can do about it as it has already been engraved into their subconscious mind. Westerners are inherently bias against China because of their press.
~~~~~
I agree with you completely. One need only watch Lou Dobbs on CNN to be painfully reminded of how bigotted western news can be.

It's most unfortunate that western countries do not put the same emphasis on teaching Chinese language and culture that China puts on teaching its citizens English language and culture.

Just read BBC news on the London protest and count how many “free Tibet” or “Human Rights” quotes are there and how many “pro-Chinese” quote are there. (Only ONE!) For people not there, it was as if there were much more”anti China” protester than the crowns waving the Chinese flag. (The fact is the total opposite!) So much for “fair and balanced” free press.

Initially I’m thankful for Mr. Simon Elegant for providing such a discussion forum. Now I had completely given up, just like giving up most many other news outlet. The stupidity is beyond belief.

Do people here argue the Chinese media is fair and balanced?! No.

Do the western media call themselves free press and fair and balanced…and continue pretending to be so? All of them self claimed so. What a joke.

Hillary Clinton today announced she plans to ask President Bush to boycott the Olympic opening ceremonies because of China's position on Tibet.

Until this moment, she was the person I had planned to vote for, and the person most chinese people I know planned to vote for.

As of today, she has lost my vote. People of all nations should set aside their differences for the sake of the Olympics celebration. It is not a political matter.

I will vote for Obama instead.

Reposted from mitbbs.com by goldenfly

"回到家，感到疲倦。不仅是体力上的，还有精神上的。但是，我不想休息，我想把我的感受告诉大家。希望今天没去参加游行的人能够理解我们这些今天亲生经历了火炬传递仪式的华人的心情。

首先，我想告诉大家，我为我们中国人的团结感到骄傲，早上十点到达铁塔的时候，已经有无数的中国学生到场，看到这些自发而来的人，第一个感受就是中国不会妥协，因为我们的精神是团结的，无论是早期来法的还是后来的80后，今天我们都走到了街上，我们的国家而战斗。我们没有像那些ZD份子一样有资金来源组织活动，我们也没有背后的操纵者规划行动，我们都是自发而来的学生，但是我们的愤怒和热情是发自内心的。
我想这也是让那些ZD 分子所没料到的。同时，我也没料到有那么多的法国人加入到 ZD 份子的行列去，回看已经结束的英国和其他国家的反对中国的行列，简直是大大不如法国人这份‘热情’啊。尽管我们中国学生已经够多了，但是还是不如他们人多啊。看着他们义愤填膺的大骂中国屠杀和控制西藏的时候，我在想这些人有多少真正的去过中国，有多少人真正的了解一点中国？？当一位法国老太太指着我们骂杀手的时候，我质问她可知道这次是ZD 份子现烧杀抢掠汉人的。她回答我说那是共产党的宣传。这时候我的感受就是媒体这个工具真是可怕啊，西方人说共产党用媒体给我们洗了脑，可是从现在发生的事情看来，难道西方和法国的媒体就没有把这些法国人的脑给洗了吗？？当他们指着一个个中国学生说杀手的时候，他们没觉得这件事情已经变了味道了吗？？当那些法国人指着所有人的面骂我们这些游行的中国人滚回中国去的时候，他们难道就忘了他们今天走到大街上叫嚷的不就是平等和自由吗？？？看着他们一张张变形的嘴脸，我看到的是一个高傲的法帝国主义的嘴脸，那阵势是在告诉你，自由和平等是对我们这些法国人而言的，你们不同意，不按我们的规则而来，那就滚回你们的国家吧！可怜的学生和华人们，我们在那里叫破了嗓子，没有一个外媒体对我们进行采访，没有一个电视台来问我们这些中国人我们的感受，我看到TF1 的记者就视我们而不见，只是采访在我们旁边的外国人，问他们问题，如果回答者没有说对中国不利的评论他们就很快结束，如果有反对者他们就刨根问底，一付不找到‘满意’答覆补罢休的样子。如果说之前我还对法国的媒体和自由平等的口号还没有完全失望的话，那么，今天的亲
生经历让我对他们彻底的不再信任了。是他们给与了我对媒体公正客观的概念，是他们告诉了我们无数的中国人平等自由的概念。 但是也是今天，他们让我彻底的理解了西方世界所谓的平等自由是怎样一个标准的平等自由。那是建立在他们所需的和他们所认同的标准之下的。这些个闪闪发光的美丽词汇的破灭对我造成的伤害之大连我自己都没料到。回到家里的路上我看着这个我曾经喜爱和留念的城市，我觉得它离我很远，尽管我就在其中，但是我觉得我是局外人，因为他们从来就没有真正接纳过我，将来也不会。就像那个法国老头骂的，如果你不高兴我们对抗中国，那么你就回到中国去。是的，我该回去了，没什么留念的啦，只有自己的国家真正的强大了，你才会得到他们的尊重。没必要在这里上税养这些不去上班而来这里反对你的人了。到家已经3个小时了，一直开着电视，只看到 ZD 份子和那群法国支持者的镜头和警察按倒捣乱者的反面新闻。我们这几百名热情的中国支持者连个意外的小脸都没漏一个，
真干净啊。法国这‘自由客观’的媒体啊，这简直比共产党的控制要厉害多了。看来这新闻的自由和客观咱是还得向法国人学习啊，咱们学的还不够彻底，所以他们给咱们意见了。建议共产党这次以后一西方媒体为样本，好好的学像咯。其实人家不满意并不是中国做的过了，而是嫌弃咱学的不好啊。另外想加一点小牢骚，今天中国人阵势不如他们，个人觉得是因为大多数还是些学生参加。而且他们的语言也不够好，所以不能和那些法国人理论。我想说得是那些在法国生活和工作的中国人，你们为什么就不能请假参加呢？？你们在上班交税，这帮人却拿着救济金伤害你，你们有着更好的语言，你们也比这些学生更了解法国，但是你们却不在。尤其是那些在法国做生意的某地区华人，也许有人来，但真的没几个。希望你们不要忘记今天站在大街上与那些疯狂的反对者对抗的人。你们能够安静的在法国工作生活，与他们的努力是有关的。

也许最后这些话让你们不高兴了，但是这是我的感受。想扔砖就扔吧。"

@china520

I've heard the same too from few colleagues in the USA. They are encouraging their parents who are U.S. citizens to no longer vote for Clinton.

Chinese Americans are still a very small minority in the US, but hey, more to Obama if Obama can refrain from using China as a bashing boy for election politics.

You have to realize, western media mostly will report on things that will get the reader's attention. The pro-China protesters, while there, don't really create anything newsworthy. What is newsworthy in the case of the torch relay is that it has been stopped by the protesters and the flame forced to be put out 3 times.

I am curious though... what would the result of the protesters be if they were to be taking place inside China? How can we Westerners know the true feelings of the Chinese about Tibet if you are not allowed to freely express your opinion in protests such as these? This is why Westerners remain skeptical of Chinese opinions. How can we know if you represent the majority opinion?

WHY DON'T YOU PEOPLE STOP CARING ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE SAYING??? If the Chinese official media don't report the disruption of the torch relay, aha, stupid country, no freedom of press!!!!! If the Chinese official media report the disruption of the torch replay, aha, stoking the stupid Chinese people's nationalism!!!!! You see, I always win, you are always the tard.

>Canadian

You don't have to be skeptical.Few people buy the western argument of "human rights". Some people may feel it like foreign intrusion. And an absolute majority would support the government despite countless complaints. Furthermore, there are a good many considering this government being like a coward in dealing with everything, you can feel this sentiment if you were chinese. Absolute majority support capital punishment, and very often criticize the government for prosecuting too few, and criminal punishment being not harsh enough. the gov is aslo very often joked for being like a coward to the U.S., Japan and the whole west. Indeed the gov has to buffer the nationalistic sentiment from time to time.

For English speakers who would like to translate Xchaos's post, I recommend the following translation sites:

http://www.mdbg.net

http://www.google.com/translate_t?langpair=zh|en

also a good translation software for people with a little chinese understanding (but insufficient) is Kingsoft FastAIT 2007

Also here is an alternate blog supporting the chinese view:

http://teribidwell.blogspot.com

What I am saying is, since you are not allowed to truly express your opinion, how can the opinions that are expressed, be trusted? If you fear that saying something anti-government will get you punished severely, then not many are going to say anything anti-government. So that is why it's hard to really get a good idea of what the Chinese opinion's really are.

Maybe all Chinese do agree with the Chinese government; but until freedom of speech is allowed, how can we truly know your opinions? I feel that a government that does not allow dissenting opinions is immature. Debate should be promoted rather than forcibly suppressed.

Canadian,

Here is where you are mistaken, and this is a common mistake that many westerners make. There IS freedom of expression in China, for the most part; go on any Chinese forum, and you can see literally dozens on dozens of threads cursing the CCP, either for corruption, for incompetence, or both. Talk to any average joe on the street, and none of them will be afraid to discuss the shortcomings of the CCP with you. Great Firewall of China preventing speech? Heh, not even close.

What China lacks is freedom of assembly; namely, the freedom to organize and actually do something about it. The CCP really doesn't give a crap about what people say, so long as their words and/or actions don't indicate that something is about to occur which might cause destabilization of their governance.

Dissenting opinions=Okay, for the average citizen; for certain high-profile individuals, the situation may or may not be the same (it seems to vary). But then again, they aren't necessarily representative of the general opinion of the Chinese people anywho.

Like I said, this is a common mistake that many westerners have with regards to China's supposed lack of freedom of speech. China isn't Stalinist USSR, where everyone is looking behind their back and speaking in hushed voices. If you go visit China, you'll realize this, and if you learned Chinese and visited Chinese websites, you'd know this as well. Unfortunately, as with most westerners (and this is not criticism), both are probably unlikely, and so the only lens through which you can view China is through that of western media...which has the Chinese people quite ticked off.

You seem like a decent fellow, and I would agree with you in many things. But, and I say this with no hostility at all, your lack of knowledge with regards to the actual situation in China really is a bit of a handicap in this sort of discussion.

Zhangsan

Oh, and Simon; no one here even remotely believes that the CCTV is fair and balanced. I'll be bold and say it straight up; it's crap. To compare it to the likes of BBC, which is supposed to be one of the most respected world-wide journalistic entities, really is effectively slinging mud at BBC.

What you're doing is pointing to a piece of turd, then pointing at a (tarnishing, in some people's minds) gold statue, and say, "See! At least the statue is better than the turd!"

Very, VERY unconvincing argument.

Zhangsan

@Canadian

I think you make a good point. The Chinese definitely should not dismiss it.

1. For the average Chinese, their concerns as of today are very much on material well-being. When the middle class swells to a politically significant number, they will demand changes.

2. You probably don't have first hand experience - even on the Web for the entire world to see - how much freedom of expression the Chinese have. Dare to learn some Chinese and go take a look? I believe many well-meaning Westerners have no idea how much freedom there is in China.

3. I hope you will sympathesize with China on historic accounts - the Europeans tried to colonize it followed by the Japanese invasion. There are still many Cold War mentalities in the West whose intention are well known towards China.

If you believe in freedom, why not allow the Chinese the freedom to choose how their society evolves?

Do you believe that the Western style capitalistic press, which you call "freedom of the press" is the best for the world?

I did a quick translation of the post in Chinese I posted a few hours back. It's from a Chinese student in Paris after today's protest. I hope I can do just for his/her post. He/she might be a kid much younger than me but I completely understand the feeling.

"
Just got home, I felt really tired, physically and psychologically (or spiritually). However, I do not want to just lay down, I want to share my feelings with you all. I hope those who did not participate in the torch relay could understand how a Chinese felt after experiencing the relay myself.

First of all, I want to let all know that I am proud of the unity shown by the Chinese people (I met). When I got to the Eifel Tower around 10 in the morning, there are already countless Chinese students there. My first feeling is that China will not compromise because we have the sprit of unity. Weather those who got to France in the early years or those “post ‘80” generation, we are all marching on the street to fight for our country. We do not have funding or organized activity as those “Tibet Independence” groups. We also do not have government backers. We students come here spontaneously as both our anger and passions are from the bottom of our hearts. I think this is also not those “free Tibet” crowd had expected. At the same time, I also had not expected there are so many French that joined them. Looking back at the London protest and those occurred in other countries, there are much more “passionate” French. Although there are many Chinese students, it is not enough. When I listened to their curse of genocide and occupation of Tibet, I kept wondering how many of them had actually been to China and how many of them truly know a little bit about China? When an old French woman pointed us and shouting “killers”, I asked her if she knew that those rioters attacked and killed innocent Han Chinese? She said those were just Communist Party propaganda. At that moment, I felt the media is such a horrible tool. The westerners said the Communist Party had washed our brain in the media. However, as things played out, hadn’t the western and French media washed those French brains? When they pointed at each and every Chinese student and said they were killers, hadn’t they realized that something was off now? When those French shouted at every marching Chinese and telling us to get out and go back to China, don’t they forget they are supposedly advocating for the equality and freedom? Seeing their twisted face and mind, I saw an arrogant imperialist face. It is telling you that freedom and equality are for us French. If you do not agree and do not play by our rules, get out and go home!

Poor students and Chinese folks…we were shouting our brain out and yet, none of the local media interviewed us. None of the TV stations and reporters stopped and cared how we feel. I saw reporters from TF1 walked by us as if we were not there and just interviewed other foreigners. When they ask questions, if the answers were not negative about China, the interview ended pretty quickly. If they got a China basher, they would keep asking and tried to get to the bottom of every bits of dirt. If I had not been completely disappointed at the so called “equity and freedom” of the French media before, my today’s experience had me completely give up any trust I had. It is them that had taught me the concept of unbiased and just media. It is the France that had shown the concept of freedom and equality to countless Chinese people. However, it is today that they let me completely understand what a so called “equality and freedom” standard in the western world. That has to be established on what they need and based on their standards. I had never expected the hurt I got when those glorious and beautiful words vaporized.

On my way home, I felt I was getting further and further away from this city I once loved and cherished. Although I live in the city, I felt now I am a complete stranger as they had never accepted me as a person and they never will. Just like that old France man scolded, “If you are not happy that we confront China, just go back to China!” I think he is right. It is time for me to go home. There is nothing to cherish here. One can only earn their respect when one’s homeland truly become strong and prosper. There is no need for me to pay tax here and feed those do not work but just come to hate you.

It’s been 3 hours since I got home. I had the TV on. There is only negative news and highlights of those “Tibet Independent” and their French supporters and police tackling unruly protestors. There is not even a single “accidental” shot of hundreds of us enthusiastic Chinese supporters. We were completely wiped out. What a “free and balanced” French media, this is way more powerful than the communist media control. It looks we definitely need to learn how to report “free and balanced” news from the French. They were mad at us because we had not completely mastered the skill. I highly recommend the Chinese Communist Party learn from the western media and complete grasp the skill. The fact is that they did not think China had censored the media too much. They are mad because we did not censor and manipulate enough.

(The last paragraph is some complaint directed toward Chinese living and working in Paris. The author thought they had better French skill and should contribute more in the protest than the student…)

"

@Zhangsan

Actually, many around the world believe CCTV is a much more credible source for international news than either BBC or CNN.

Watch out for the Chinese brand.

> Canadian

It's not that serious like anti-gov conversation will lead to an arrest. People do it all the time. It's common and it happens everywhere. People get drunk during a meal with a bunch of friends cursing corrupt officials, There are also satires about policies, etc etc... u practically hear about that everyday. One of my college teachers spent her whole class criticizing Chinese law and tried so hard to explicitly indicate the evil nature of the communist regime so much so that the actual content of the class for the whole semester was practically omitted. Even if there is propaganda, people would still able to observe and form their own opinions. The Chinese gov is not at all as oppressive as depicted by right groups. As long as you don't make public confrontation with the government, they wouldn't care you that much. And how would they possibly take 'care' of 1.4 billion people at the same time? In China you have to understand progress and compromise. You cannot expect things to change in a dramatic way in an instant. But what an average Chinese can see is almost everything is steadily improving.

Well, I was in Trafalgar Square London yesterday to attend a pro China protest against biased Western media and welcome the Olympic torch. There were huge crowd of us and waves of Chinese flag and very few pro Free Tibet protesters. Then we marched to Downing Street and I would say there are more than a thousand of us and obviously over numbered the pro Free Tibet protesters. And again the western media wouldn’t disappoint me again; there are hardly any footage of pro China protesters on TV and paper here in UK.

I was a university student on a street march back in 1989. The scenery in Lhasa last month is no thing the same as in Beijing 1989 which the protesters were always peaceful and not to storm the shops and government building and burn ethnic people alive.
The scenery in Lhasa last month is much the same as happened in Paris 2005 and Los Angeles 1992. It was more about racial violence.

I live in London for 8 years now. Simon, some of your comments here along with Jane Macartney’s journalism is not benefiting a balanced journalism. And some of the journalism has turned into be a “mouthpiece” of Free Asia Radio or Tibet government in exile.

I am tired of this anti China propaganda.

Please do more research on A Little More on Tibetan History and do A Little Understanding, Please; not just TO make Headlines.

Good Luck!

http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream2

The banners placed on the Golden Gate bridge by San Franciso protestors are being taken down as I type this.

Grab the torch from someone in a wheelchair! Very heroic!

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20080407/capt.2e4c5e948a4645faa9eb5c72501a4a4d.france_olympic_torch_xtc104.jpg?x=400&y=266&sig=r_uDpQYfDHZap5645zpMpg--

to Canadian:

I can trust the speech of the native chinese people I talk to on MSN and Skype, and they give me politically informative news URLs and tell me in their own voices what they believe and think.

People in the west don't realize that the biggest extent of web censorship in China is related to pornography and active dissent against the government.

What is happening in Tibet is roughly on the same order as if the Mexicans demanded Texas and California back, and rioted violently in demand of it, burning cars, murdering shop owners and cutting off their ears, demanding mexican government control of Texas. I have seen the photos and the videos of exactly that in Lhasa and Sichuan province.

The US would take military action against such a thing, and in the same regard China has taken military action against rioters in Tibet.
Unfortunately we have few people interested in Chinese news in the US so it gets less press on CNN and Time.

to Canadian:

I can trust the speech of the native chinese people I talk to on MSN and Skype, and they give me politically informative news URLs and tell me in their own voices what they believe and think.

People in the west don't realize that the biggest extent of web censorship in China is related to pornography and active dissent against the government.

What is happening in Tibet is roughly on the same order as if the Mexicans demanded Texas and California back, and rioted violently in demand of it, burning cars, murdering shop owners and cutting off their ears, demanding mexican government control of Texas. I have seen the photos and the videos of exactly that in Lhasa and Sichuan province.

The US would take military action against such a thing, and in the same regard China has taken military action against rioters in Tibet.
Unfortunately we have few people interested in Chinese news in the US so it gets less press on CNN and Time.

The Onion has good article about this -

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/olympic_torch_used_to

BEIJING—A universally recognized symbol of goodwill, the Olympic torch was used to immolate hundreds of Tibetan protesters during its journey across mainland China last week, in what is being called a stirring display of competitive spirit and Chinese nationalism.

"It was a thrilling experience," said torchbearer Wei Xiang, a member of the People's Liberation Army, who personally set 23 monks ablaze as he ran past their peaceful protest. "Today, I am very proud to be Chinese." As the torch travels the globe, a group of Serbian Nationalists has reportedly offered to transport the emblematic flame across the newly independent nation of Kosovo.

The Onion has good article about this -

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/olympic_torch_used_to

BEIJING—A universally recognized symbol of goodwill, the Olympic torch was used to immolate hundreds of Tibetan protesters during its journey across mainland China last week, in what is being called a stirring display of competitive spirit and Chinese nationalism.

"It was a thrilling experience," said torchbearer Wei Xiang, a member of the People's Liberation Army, who personally set 23 monks ablaze as he ran past their peaceful protest. "Today, I am very proud to be Chinese." As the torch travels the globe, a group of Serbian Nationalists has reportedly offered to transport the emblematic flame across the newly independent nation of Kosovo.

that's funny :-)

The protests in London and Paris somehow remind me how the Green Peace smashed eggs onto Japanese whaling boats and hurt ordinary Japanese fish men… there are extremists everywhere.

xchaos360 I would like to talk to you

MSN or email polkadot1977 at yahoo dot com
QQ 860858418

China accused the Dalai Lama of masterminding the revolt in Lhasa. The Dalai Lama has categorically denied this. He has gone on to allege that Chinese soldiers dressed as Tibetan monks perpetrated the violence in Lhasa. Much before Dalai Lama said this, Tibetan sources, following the Lhasa violence, had claimed to media that People's Liberation Army (PLA) soldiers dressed as monks had started the riots. After verifying this claim the Dalai Lama said: "The picture in which a monk is seen holding a sword is not a traditional Tibetan sword. It is a Chinese sword. We know that a few hundred Chinese soldiers have disguised themselves as monks."

Would the PLA instigate violence in Lhasa merely to damage the reputation of Dalai Lama and his Tibetan followers? In balance, damage to the reputation of the Chinese government itself has exceeded damage to the Tibetans. Why then would PLA soldiers be ordered to unleash violence in Lhasa? Yet the Dalai Lama's allegation should not be dismissed. Indeed it is strengthened by a strange piece of evidence.

When the Lhasa violence erupted on March 14, no foreign media person could remain on the scene except one British journalist. The journalist was James Miles of London's The Economist. He saw at close quarters the rioting in several parts of Lhasa as he traveled around the city. This, among other things, is what he said in the report he filed for The Times of London on March 15, one day after the riots: "I saw a group of a hundred or so residents breaking up pieces of concrete and throwing them at the windows of Chinese shops as hundreds of on-lookers cheered. There was no sign of any attempt by security personnel during all of this to restore order. For an entire afternoon and into the evening Lhasa was under the control of rioters."

How could PLA soldiers, heavily entrenched in Tibet, as well as the police, remain helpless for one whole day? Subsequent events deepened this mystery. On March 27 the Chinese government invited foreign media to see for themselves the normalized conditions of the Tibetans living in Lhasa. The journalists were taken to the sacred Jokhang Temple in Lhasa. Once again things went horribly, and inexplicably, wrong. A group of monks disrupted the government-managed tour of the foreign reporters. The monks screamed there was no religious freedom and that the Dalai Lama was not to blame for the recent violence. There were just about 30 monks demonstrating. One young monk stunned the visiting group by yelling, "Tibet is not free! Tibet is not free!" He then started crying. How could security be breached by this small group when there is such tight arrangement in Lhasa?

The possibility of internal sabotage by a section of the Chinese government itself must be seriously considered. The differences between President Hu Jintao and his predecessor Jiang Zemin need to be recalled. The chief editor of Hong Kong's usually well informed Open magazine, Jin Zhong, has claimed that Jiang is paralyzed and suffering from Parkinson's disease. Jiang's natural successor of the Shanghai group that he led is Zeng Quinghong. Zeng was Vice-President and number two in China's hierarchy until he was removed from his post by Hu during the 17th Communist Party Congress in October 2007.

Zeng is among China's "princelings", who are children of the Communist party elitists that brought about the revolution. Both his parents served Mao Zedong and participated in the Long March. The top echelons of the PLA are dominated by elitist Hans. It should not surprise if the PLA, which acts like a government within a government, might consider Zeng as the natural choice to lead China. Could the PLA and Zeng's sympathizers exploit the Tibet issue to disgrace President Hu?

President Hu was the architect of the repressive policy in Tibet.Failure of that policy will be seen as his personal failure. Hu's rivals would know that an autonomous Tibet within China would not diminish but enhance China's international standing. It is a tailor-made issue for striking at Hu. The curious role of the PLA and Tibetan security suggests that some such possibility cannot be discarded. The Tibet issue cannot be exploited by the Dalai Lama or by foreign powers to deliver a body blow to China. But powerful dissidents in China could deliver a fatal blow. President Hu Jintao is silent on Tibet. Premier Wen Jiabao appears ridiculous by constantly demanding that Dalai Lama give up his claim for independence -- which the Tibetan leader has repeatedly and publicly done so -- before China can talk with him. The Chinese government is busy accusing foreign enemies. But the real danger to it could come from enemies within. The August Olympics might prove this.

Asingh, did you know that you just proved yourself to be a very verbose idiot?

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry, that's the only response I could come up with to respond to such sheer...mental deficiency. For your sake, ASingh, I hope that was a copy and paste job.

Zhangsan

This is my test post trying to figure out a way of not double-posting...

First, I press "preview" button...works
Secondly, I press "Post"...will it work without "403" error?

I can not hold back my tears when I read this story and saw this picture.

(http://www.mitbbs.com/article2/Military/31204589_264.jpg)

For those can not see the picture and wanted to see one, please email to xchaos360@gmail.com

We all owe the brave girl a "thank you" from bottom of the the heart.

==========
From a Chinese student in Paris:

I went to the (torch relay scene) this noon. I had a heavy heart now. I beat up a violent protester.

This is not China’s land, supporters of Tibet independence and those against Olympics can express their opinion. No one stop them from showing off in front of the reporter’s camera. (I’m ok with that) Just like we are free to raise the Chinese flag to support the Olympics. However, there is too much violence in today’s protest.

I was at the segment by the Seine just outside the Eiffel Tower. The touch bearer is a young amputee girl. There is one male and one female guard. The road is very difficult. Every five seconds, someone is rushing out of the crowd and try to grab the torch. To protect the girl, the guards moved her wheelchair to the gap between two cars parked on the roadside, right in front of me. Suddenly one mobster rushed from the roadside and tried to grad the torch. The guards could not get close because of the car. The brave girl ducked and turned her back toward the man and used her body to shield and protect the torch. The thug grabbed her arm and started beating her. At that moment, there is a moment of emptiness in my head. I instinctively rushed in and tried to grab that guy and I started beating him using my camera in my hands. Another guy from my left also rushed in and started beating that thug. (Luckily he is not targeting me). A French policeman eventually pulled that thug away. All these happened in an instant. The torch carrying girl raised her head with tears in her beautiful eyes. A Chinese girl to my left shouted “Be strong! Go!”. I just regained my thoughts and also shouted “Go! Go!”.

My tears finally rushed out at that moment. I was very indignant. Why do they even want to beat up a disabled defenseless girl? Where is the least amount of humanity? In a politically motivated protest, there is always a bunch of thugs resort to violence under the banner of democracy and freedom.

Here is the original post in Chinese.

"转一个留学生的话：
中午去了现场，心情沉重，更打了暴徒份子 　

在这个不是中国的地盘上，zd支持者们和反奥运者可以表达自己的意见，愿意在各国记者的摄像机前展示也没有人拦着；就像我们的人拿着国旗支持奥运一样。但不幸的是今天的活动掺杂了太多的暴力。

我在艾菲尔铁塔出来后的那段塞纳河边，火炬手是个一条腿被截肢的年轻的姑娘，另还有一男和一女保护，几乎隔5秒就冲出一个人试图去抢火炬，前进的道路异常艰难，于是为了保护这位姑娘，那一男和一女就将轮椅暂且推到了路边停放的两辆汽车中间的辖道缝隙避一避，正在我的面前。此时从路边突然冲出一个暴徒去抢火炬，而保护她的一男一女因汽车挡着无法近身，勇敢的姑娘低下头让出自己的背保护火炬，暴徒就拉扯她
的胳膊还打她，那一刻我脑子里啥都没有，本能的冲上去拉拽那个暴徒，用手里的相机打他。随后我左边又有一个人冲过来打那个暴徒（还好不是打我的），还有一个法国警察过来最终把暴徒揪走了。这一切都只发生在瞬间！火炬手姑娘重新抬起头，大眼睛中含着泪水，我左边的一个中国女生向她高喊：加油，要坚强！我才缓过神来，也喊到：加油，加油！此时我的眼泪才唰的一下下来，我很悲愤，一个手无寸铁的女生，更何况是个残疾人，也要打？起码的人道主义都没有。政治运动中，永远有一些暴徒打着民主与自由的旗帜进行暴力行动。"

Here is another link to the pic of the torch relaying gal in the wheelchair: http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/04/07/world/0407-TORCH_9.html

@ASingh. Very verbose idiot indeed. This just shows how informed these guys are. Dalai Lama himself is probably knocking his head against a wall now by using those infamous photos as evidence. It’s photo taken in 2002 at a movie production scene. The same photo had already been used by the “Free Tibet” organization in 2003. The holiness needs some basic fact finding at this moment.

Is anyone surprised that the US media can quickly find out all the stories behind NY governor’s call girl and “missed” such a groundless accusation? The answer: “It’s not news worthy”

I am the only one who thinks The Onion is the best western media establishment on the planet? >.>

Seriously now....

I just wish these human rights protesters would stop it. Its counter-productive to their claimed aims. Their actions just inflame (pun intended ;)) the Chinese people, who are not responsible for whatever their government does (just like I'm not responsible for our failure of a president here...) and who just want to see the Olympics held in glorious style in their homeland. Disrupting the ceremonies this way is only gonna piss people off more and set us all back on getting a good conversation going.

Sheesh... people hanging from the golden gate bridge... don't they have anything better to do with themselves...

"I will vote for Obama instead."

Posted by china520 | April 7, 2008 1:54 PM

Woohoo! I don't like Hilary... she's a megalomaniac intent on getting what she wants no matter the cost. Not the kind of person I'd want at the helm >:P

Good coverage from Hong Kong:
http://www.mingpaonews.com/20080408/_08nh201.jpg

"中午去了现场，心情沉重，更打了暴徒份子"
Hmmm... I wonder who is 暴徒份子, the one who beated others or the one who got beaten. This must be patriotism with Chinese characteristics.

Thanks for the confession, anyway.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-climbers8apr08,0,4169061.story

Above is a link to a LA Times article with pictures and video of these crazy protestors in San Francisco. San Francisco might be worse than London and Paris because the area is so full of career Dalai Lama protestors.

Posted by xchaos360 | April 7, 2008 3:11 PM

Thank you for that excellent translation!

Reading that makes me really sad. I wish people wouldn't treat each other that way :(

搞笑， simon 你居然看People's Daily ，人民日报？？？ 你不知道中国年轻人从来不看人民日报吗？？？！！

funny, simon you read People's Daily ,u don't know chinese younger never read and believe it???!!!

中国麻烦大了，全世界的麻烦也来了。不要忘了，我们在同一条船上！！！

"中国麻烦大了，全世界的麻烦也来了。不要忘了，我们在同一条船上！！！"

"If China has a lot of problems, the entire world will have a lot of problems. Don't forget, we're all in the same boat!"

@John Smith or whatever, if you are still wondering, that says it all.

转自苹果网history2008网友：

不知道参加46伦敦火炬游行的朋友在去唐宁街的路上，因为警察封路，所以我们和藏独有过一段时间面对面对峙，这是一个衣着邋遢的外国年轻男子突然敲起一面破锅，一蹦三跳，情绪激动的在大喊：

“free Japan!free Japan!"(自由日本！自由日本！）

因为当时现场环境比较嘈杂，但他身边的人都一楞，大家一时间有点迷惑，怎么又和日本有什么关系？

这是有藏独份子赶紧上前和他说了几句，他重新喊才是"free tibet,free tibet!"(自由西藏，自由西藏）

也许JAPAN和TIBET的发音比较相近吧，这哥们一时间还没整明白。

当时我们有位爱国的中国超市老板给大家送了一些瓶装饮料在路边发，这敲破锅SB哥们看来连自己哪个阵营也没分清，因为人群都交织在一起，就到这边要饮料喝，我们发饮料的问他是不是被雇来的，怎么这么晕呢？不过这SB哥们倒很实诚，承认是被花钱雇来的。

我在巴黎的同学来电话说在藏独的支持者中，看到自己住处附近的流浪汉和酒鬼也在里面，真是羡慕藏独的资金来源，到底谁是被雇佣的，西方媒体永远不会说出真相的。

AT THE RISK OF LIFE
Just as the sun
Sheds its rays on the moon
To give light to the earth
In the darkness of the night
So too must we stroke our hearts
To raise hope in our hour of despair

Just as the bee stings its aggressor
To protect itself at the risk of life
At the hand of the aggressor
So too must we sting the Chinese
To defend ourselves at the risk of life
At the hands of the Chinese

Just as salmons swim upstream
To spawn their future generations
At the risk of life at the hands of bears
So too must we struggle uphill
To fight for our children's future
At the risk of life at the hands of the Chinese

Better we risk life
Than live in fear all our lives

Copyright: Tsoltim N. Shakabpa - 2008
*********************************************

TO MY COUNTRYMEN OF TIBET
By Tsoltim N. Shakabpa

If you can't move the mountain
Move the hill
If you can't move the hill
Move the mound
If you can't move the mound
Move the dirt
Whatever you do, make a move
For in the heart of the Dalai Lama
Lies a wish to win peace for Tibet
And in the hands of the Tibetan people
Lies the weapon to win that peace
In the spirit of the Dalai Lama
Lies a will to fight for freedom
And in the hands of the Tibetan people
Lies the future of that freedom
In the voice of the Dalai Lama
Lies the truth
And in the actions of the Tibetan people
Lies the realization of that truth

So, my countrymen of Tibet,
Follow the heart, spirit and voice of the Dalai Lama
And you will surely win a true, peaceful and free Tibet

This blog's name should be changed to "Anti-China Blog".
I see no good journalism here. Simon's posts only serve to increase misunderstanding and ethnic hatrede and discredit the western media among the Chinese people.
In every town in Tibet, one can see the generous support of other Chinese provinces in improving the livelihood of Tibetans. In fact, buildings, roads, hospitals, schools, and even Tibetan style houses have been built with the donation from other regions of China.
There are also many volunteers from other regions of China who work hard in teaching Tibetan children, providing medical care, protecting the enviorment...
What have the separatists done? Spreading rumours, creating ethnic gaps, and instigating violence and unrest. They haven't done anything constructive.
What did former rulers of Tibet did for their people when they ruled the region? They didn't build even a single hospital or public school.
They become increasingly irrelevant for the development and prosperity of Tibet and are now desperate.
Olympics is the occasion to put our difference aside and promote mutual understanding, friendship, and peace.
The activists' disruption and sabotage and the western support for that are disgusting. They will only increase the solidarity among the Chinese people.
They are doomed to fail. The separatists were, are and will always be the losers.

Dear Simon,

I think the Politburo have already discussed the issue.

Did you read the report that Premier Wen in Laos said that some disruption was inevitable during the torch relay abroad?

So i think you don't need to worry too much about whether the Chinese government has a plan for the worst.

Yours

Clown_in_you_face: no, your funny nick name does't annoy me at all. Just wanna help.

When I die, either would I want to go to hell nor would I go to the heaven. Let me stay in the world watching your funny show.

Readers,

I want to apologize to Sara and other well-meaning and thoughtful people of this world first. I want to take a cheap shot at this ASingh.

--------

I have a theory about this ASingh and Simon Elegant.

Asingh was growing opiums for his British Empire master, Elegant. Elegant diluted Chinese wealth using opium, in case you didn't know. Now that ASingh has been given opporunity to study in London, he has picked up the language of self-righteousness from the master. Because there is a group of people within UK still longing for the old Empire days (where support for the Dalai Lama & theocrats were once strong), this puppy is longing for a few more pieces of bones from the master.

They took your diamond! Its 2008! Wake up, ASingh! Gandhi is much cooler.

If you are all serious with the discussion - we told you in another thread to go and read the previous posts.

To Asingh:

http://bp2.blogger.com/_gMZeJFA9sc8/R_FN213M0OI/AAAAAAAAAGc/_5__DJyyU1o/s1600-h/9555327.jpg

http://bp1.blogger.com/_gMZeJFA9sc8/R_FLzl3M0NI/AAAAAAAAAGU/QBTvXmuBBvM/s1600-h/lhasa2.jpg

Look at the photos and decide for yourself, could it be possible that THAT MANY chinese military men dressed up as buddhist monks and did that much damage? Are you saying they staged the entire protest in Lhasa, in Sichuan province, in all provinces everywhere, just so they could dress up as monks and cause trouble for the Dalai Lama by whipping the local population into such a frenzy they started burning buildings and cars?

Puhleeeeeze, you have been smoking something weedy.

hehe,

I just felt very sick and tired of this crooked and cold-blooded blogger.

Just want to remind you that. Simon, you will be hated by 1.3 billion Chinese. Hope someday someone will spit on your face. Your name will be recorded in Chinese history book forever as one of cold blooded, hitler-type, murder's assistant.

An Autrilian, M.A Jones enaged in an online discussion on Tibet in the PBS forum from (hold your breath!) Hangzhou, China. (Near Shanghai) in 2007.

Here is the link:

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=68073&postdays=0&postorder=asc&topic_view=&start=30

If it is too long, just get to the bottom and read the last few posts.

The problem is most western media and politics still think that 1.3 billion Chinese are pigs. They don't think Chinese people (not goverment)have right to hold olympic. They have never mentioned and thought about what was majority Chinese people's (including oversee Chinese) feeling about this. and no one experess the sympathy of innocent people died during riot.
One thing should be remembered is these touch events will increase the conflict between Tibet and Han people in China.
In term of bias, China daily definitely controlled by Chinese Goverment but how are Time and CNN. We should go back to check what role CNN played prior to Iraq war.

德媒：中国民主和人权的进步让西方媒体措手不及 　　德国《时代周刊》4月6日文章，原题：西方应该对此感到高兴

　　就像中国政府不曾对达赖喇嘛的追随者在点火仪式上的捣乱事件有任何准备一样，西方同样惊讶于中国人对西方媒体对现在不实报道的过激反应。

　　西方媒体习惯了面对笨拙的、没有创造性的中国媒体。但这次他们遇到了一个新的对手，即中国国民。对于大多数参与者来说，这场战斗无关政治和经济，而是对不公正的反抗。中国人民以自信、有理有制、创造性的方式追求公正。西方媒体被中国人民的强烈不满和抗议惊呆了，至今仍没有找到合适的回应。

　　中国的这股新鲜力量来自新一代，他们受过良好的教育、懂得如何获取信息、自信，最重要的是他们具有独立思考的能力。只有“党的忠实士兵”才为中国和中国政府说话、“所有的中国人”都是没受过教育的、闭塞的民族主义者，这样的观点是大错特错了。

　　中国人的抗议行动以高科技的交流技术为依托，他们利用虚拟媒体，在各个论坛、使用世界各种语言顽强地追踪着西方媒体关于西藏问题的不公正报道，他们据理力争，追根溯源、提供证据。即使少数几个人例外，但绝大多数参与者在这场战斗中恰到好处地理解了民主和人权的意义。

　　其实西方应该对此感到高兴，因为他们祈祷了很久的中国民主和人权的改善终于初露端倪。但西方只是没有准备好，自己会成为民主和人权原则批驳的对象。如今，西方媒体的双重标准终于埋葬了中国人民对它的信赖，某种程度上也让西方媒体失去了本国人民的信赖。

　　这次对峙有很多后果，首先会改变传媒界的整体形势，逼迫西方媒体更加客观。政治上，中国将更加自信。可以预想，这次的事件会加速中国民主化进程的脚步，因为自信的中国民众将同样针对自己的国家维护其自身权利

The CNN had been highly successful in brainwashing Americans into invading Iraq by spewing US government lies about Iraq has WMDs and Saddam is linked to Osama Bin Laden. In that sense, it is no better than US. government mouthpiece.

Now thanks to hard work of biased reporting by Simon Elegant and others in the American propaganda machine, China has risen to third amongst America's perceived enemies, surpassing North Korea, member of "the axis of evil," according to George W. Bush.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080331/ap_on_re_us/us_enemies_poll

WASHINGTON - China has replaced North Korea as one of the top three U.S. enemies, according to a poll of Americans.

Iran topped the list, with 25 percent naming it when asked which country is the greatest U.S. enemy, according to the Gallup Poll. Iraq came next at 22 percent, then China with 14 percent.

North Korea was named by 9 percent — half the number who cited it a year earlier. Pyongyang agreed last year to disable its nuclear facilities in exchange for aid, though disputes have continued over implementing the deal.

China, a growing economic rival of the U.S., was cited by 11 percent as top enemy a year ago.

Gallup first asked the question in early 2001, before the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11. At the time, Iraq was seen as the biggest foe, followed by China and Iran.

xchaos360 wrote "Poor students and Chinese folks…we were shouting our brain out and yet, none of the local media interviewed us. None of the TV stations and reporters stopped and cared how we feel. I saw reporters from TF1 walked by us as if we were not there and just interviewed other foreigners. When they ask questions, if the answers were not negative about China, the interview ended pretty quickly. If they got a China basher, they would keep asking and tried to get to the bottom of every bits of dirt."

bluescreen2000 wrote "Well, I was in Trafalgar Square London yesterday to attend a pro China protest against biased Western media and welcome the Olympic torch. There were huge crowd of us and waves of Chinese flag and very few pro Free Tibet protesters. Then we marched to Downing Street and I would say there are more than a thousand of us and obviously over numbered the pro Free Tibet protesters. And again the western media wouldn’t disappoint me again; there are hardly any footage of pro China protesters on TV and paper here in UK."

And now look at everything Simon Elegant has posted here and written in the TIME magazine. The coverage is SOOOOOOOOOOOOO unbiased!

Are there any better reason for the foreign press to be kept out of Tibet?

It's true that the disruption makes Chinese people unhappy.

It's true that the distruption makes Tibetan separatists and Simon Elegant and the like very happy.

SO WHAT? The Chinese people will know more reality of this world, and life will go on -- Simon Elegant, don't be too disappointed.

Starting from London Games, the Olympic Committee should seriously consider a new sport of torch grabbing during the its global tour. Anyone can participate and the fastest grabber win. It will be fun and exciting, and no more embarrassment of the host country.

OK, so now that we've established white people as the devil incarnate, I'd like to divert attention to the discussion on the link below:

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=68073

Thank you Zhihua for pointing this out. I did not think an online bulletin board discussion could produced such high quality. Renews my belief in the internet.

Now back to our previous discussion. WHITE PEOPLE ARE EVIL EVIL EVIL!!!!

As someone who has until now admired China I have really been turned off the place by the amount of hate I see coming through from Chinese citizens over these Olympic protests. It's like the Cultural Revolution again [not that I was there first time around].
I think the Chinese commentators overlook one point: the vast majority of westerners aren't anti-China, they just aren't interested in China very much. Or the Olympics.

Mike,

No, It’s not culture revolution coming back.
The anti China and pro Free Tibet hysteria in western recall me the Cold War is coming back!
It is not doubt CCP is evil. But shouting “human rights” doesn’t give your licences to kill ordinal people on the street. The “human rights” mobs are evils too. They are racists.
And some evidence of “unbiased” western media journalism. Let me grab a piece of it.

On “the Times” someday last month reporting bloody clash between authority and Tibetan protectors in Sichuan Province, “Some try to storm the local security headquarters and steal some weapons”. I remember it because the word “steal” makes me laugh. The journalist must be trying to use his wording careful.
The merging fact of this deadly incident is, at that day, some monks were not happy the noise made by some police officers morning exercise. They storm their camp, been expel back. Then again they storm the local police station and try to get some weapons. Police possibly fight back results in some death.

So please tell me, my western friends, how many chance of survival if you storm a United States Police Station. In this case is it justified to bring the police force and restore the order?

Some of the Free Tibet campaigners are racists. So as some of the anti China campaigners

"As such, the average Chinese reader knows it is propaganda. Whatever is written on the People’s Daily is taken with a grain of salt by the public." Mr. Midmay, I have to disagree with you here. I am actually surprised how many of my educated friends actually do believe much of what is told to them through the Chinese media when it is obvious propaganda. It has led to some spirited debates though.

"After verifying this claim the Dalai Lama said: "The picture in which a monk is seen holding a sword is not a traditional Tibetan sword. It is a Chinese sword. We know that a few hundred Chinese soldiers have disguised themselves as monks." I have seen NO such quote by the Dalai Lama. Everything I have read, he has NOT made this accusation. If someone can tell me where he has, I would love a link to read the article.

I do admit, until I moved to China I had no idea how much freedom was allowed on the Internet. However, I think what Canadian is saying is it's still not true free speech. Many of the posting's about the PX in Xiamen were deleted a week after they appeared. Many sites are blocked. And yes, you can talk freely on the street, but can you hold a sign on the road expressing that talk for all to see. What I would like to know is when all of you register, do you give you full names? I read how Yahoo turned a name over to the Chinese government who was a so called dissident and was jailed. These are the things that outrage people in America because Yahoo is an American company.

Don't take to much into that 14% number. Those were probably cat and dog owners who's pet's died. These are the instances that create a negative view about China though. However, as I have said before, separate the people from the government. Just as all of you should not brand "all" western media as bias when only citing a handful of bad apples, don't brand American's as Chinese haters because of a few extremists who are out of touch with reality. Most Americans I know have nothing against the Chinese "people". During the cold war with the USSR we were told to hate the government, but not the people. (At least during the 70's and 80's when I was growing up.)

Do you know Chinese is the most popular language to learn in many schools in America now?

Just my thoughts.

BTW Anyone interested in REALLY learning about bias in th