China's Nationalists Try to Hit `Em Where it Hurts...

It is interesting to see how these young kids get crazy mad. Western media are their standard to check whether the Chinese state media is lying or not. Now they feel betrayed. And the very thing that they are cheated on is such a serious stuff. It is about the territorial integrity of their motherland. If the Westerner really want to see CCP gone, they should try to tell these kids that CCP is selling out Tibet, not the other way around. Nice, well done.

I'm certainly sympathetic to Chinese people angered by the politicization of these games, but that message is pretty off base in places. Chinese media won't report on the violence, and people won't trust western sources anymore, so where are they getting this from? The internet? I shudder to think about what kind of stories must be gaining traction.

1. "Before the relay, a French TV station called on people to protest on street for the reason that they “don’t want Chinese flags flaunting all over”."

Huh? Really? French people just decided they hated all that red and gold?

2. "The French police in charge of security simply stood by to see the separatists snatching the torch, and striking the disabled torch carrier."

As long as you ignore every picture and video in which they're out there vigorously cracking skulls.

Am I the only person who finds it just a tad ironic that Chinese people, disallusioned with both western and eastern news sources, have turned to the net as a source of truth? At any rate. Bring on the flames!

Well, there are also voice calling for supporting the Carrefour. Simon, don't miss that.
Those young kids used to call for boycott lots of things, they never successed.

There are also some people in the west world calling for boycott of 'made in China'. They are on the same intelligent level with those radical pathetic young kids.

That's a long SMS message.

stupid kids, they should boycott LV if they think LV is the biggest share holder of CF. What do they boycott CF for, it sells things made in China and employees Chinese people. Can't they find something better to boycott?

I think the West tends to forget one simple fact when they jump on the bandwagon to bash china, the Chinese are a people of 1.3billion, and they have a long standing civilization of 5,000 years. It's pretty hard to brainwash them anyway.

On the other hand, Americans are much easier to misled and have their opinions directed. What do they say? "God created America to house all the dumbasses"

Of course people will agree, and list Thomas Edison or Albert Einstein as their counter argument. As for the latter, he's born a german jew and later went to Switzerland. As for the former, god makes mistakes, right?LOL

Quote a comment on the washington post 'Pomfrt's China' blog:

'As a Chinese I can point out no Chinese is really proud of the human right situation in China, but most people are satisfied with the progress in the country. We are at a different development stage with regard to individual right when compared to the west. Yes, the progress is slow, very slow, but nonetheless it's moving forward. Chinese are often accused of being paranoid with stability. Yes, that's true. But we have all the rights to be paranoid because we know what chaos mean. Have you ever stood in a train station in China overwhelmed by hundred of thousands of people all around you? Can you imagine one single meal in China costs over a billion bow of rice. One single misstep or bad policy may cause disaster affecting million of lives. When the Soviet collapsed, it brought chaos for some time, but Russians were at a more advanced stage of development and they eventually were able to withstand it. China, on the other hand with its collosal country folks will not stand a chance under the same circumstance.

Western media often brushed aside Chinese view of their country, calling them not understanding the real situation because of news blockage. When a demonstration broke out against China, the news was swiftly broadcasted, when thousands of Chinese demonstrated for China in Canada just a few days ago. Not a single western media reported that. Would you think these people have lack of news access in Canada? In that sense, western media selective broadcasting is no difference from the Chinese media.

Often western media uses hidden terms to demonize the situation, like "China appointed governor of Tibet or Hong Kong". But when Hong Kong was a British colony, I never saw a single term "British appointed governor of Hong Kong". As a matter of fact, no citizen of HK even knew how the governor looked like until he landed. Bias can be hidden and the western media is making full use of them.

As the prime minister of Singapore had said, the youths of the west did not know the recent humiliation of Chinese will have serious consequence in their own lifetime. Unfortunately, it's true. The naive trust of any western by the Chinese had been broken by the latest saga. Meaningless animosity revealed by the people of the west against China will be faced off by the Chinese people with an equivalent senseless animosity. And what does that bring to the world?'

by Bidwell

I want to clarify a few points thus no to invite "outcries" for my use of generalizaiton.
"Americans are dumb"=true
"Every American is dumb"=false
"Americans don't realize they are dumb"=true
"Americans are not getting dumber, education will improve their general sense....over time, you know"=false
"Americans will remain dumb for the eternity"=true
"Americans will be enlightened at the final judgment"=Not very Probable.

Americans won't LOL at this=true

I am a Chinese and I've got the message about boycotting Carrefour in China.It's not rational, absolutely. But it's acceptable, isn't it?!

Look at the TV footage on CNN, BBC or other western media, look at the faces of so-called tibetan protestors. Do they look like a Tibetan? Has any of the journalists ever asked them whether these rioters have been to Lhasa or meet the damn DALAI LAMA by face?

Probably no! Can you just believe in what they brought to you? Just think about it with your small heads!!

美国人是愚苯的,他们是很容易掌控的,中国人不要不相信自己,没有自信的.
西方的利益对于中国是一样的,"利益是政治的支持"--Democritus
一个中国人的苏格兰好朋友.

It's completely acceptable to boycott whatever you want.

It doesn't seem reasonable to me to boycott carrefour, there is such a separation between what happened in Paris and the carrefour stores in China. I've heard that the board of carrefour supports Tibetan independence or something like that, but that is so far removed from the stores around China that it makes the boycott seem like lashing out in the Dark. But it is a great way to peacefully protest something you disagree with, which I wholeheartedly support.

Boycotting for 1 day will not hurt carrefour or anyone associated with carrefour. But it will reduce my waiting time considerably.

I also think it's interesting that everyone is finally having a reasonable discussion here, except for Robert Elder, who typifies the childish Chinese response that has brought so much criticism on Chinese netizens.

In the end, using nationality to determine a person's intelligence really only reflects upon your own ... poorly.

Everyone, both Chinese and westerner alike, needs to remember that the purpose of news reporters is to report on the NEWS. Although the great majority of western people are well aware of the fact that they don't personally understand the Tibet situation well and have no strong feelings about it either way, there are still some protestors, and it is those protestors that are newsworthy, not the overwhelming majority of reasonable people who don't have much problem with the situation.

Likewise, most Chinese people are also very reasonable and also realise that the fact that there are a few protestors in western countries does not mean that all westerners and western governments are organising a massive conspiracy against China to try to undermine and overthrow it. The vocal minority is always newsworthy and always makes news, but just because these mostly young and mostly poorly informed individuals can make a lot of noise and get in the news doesn't mean they are in any way representative of the majority.

Talking with my Chinese friends about this, none of them have any animosity towards the west, they don't plan to boycott anything, they are not any more nationalistic now than they were six months ago, and they think this whole thing started basically because, as in any part of the world, there is always a certain segment of the population that is dissatisfied with the status quo (usually poorly educated young people with no families to support) and the Chinese government handled the situation poorly by cutting off all media coverage in what should have been an open and shut case of riot control and dispersal.

What would Mr. Simon Elegant say?
The power of the people! as he did in the case of protests against some chemical plants in China.

I have read articles on this magazine and other western media claiming that the Chinese government basically has no idea of the pressure they are going to face. This claim is true, only that the pressure comes more from within than from outside.

According to one article by Austin Ramzy, the Chinese bungles the case of torch relay by dispatching people's armed police as the torch guards. This, as the article claims, shows that the Chinese (government) does not understand the sensitivity of westeners. Then what kind of sensitivity the west has generally displayed to the Chinese emotion by overtly supporting disruption to the torch relay when western journalists write with thinly-veiled joy about how torch relay descends into chao and farce and how the Chinese (government) would be humiliated.

In my opinion, it seems that the chinese government made a over-the-top preparation for the torch relay while the west are the ones unprepared for the voluntary anger from Chinese that the west's support for tibet independence and boycott of Beijing Olympics have triggered.

There is also this strange logic that the government and the people are totally two things. Therefore Jack Cafferty is not guilty as long as he announces that "goons and thugs are directed at the Chinese government, not the Chinese people." Nobody knows what he was thinking about at the exact moment when he was speaking the words: the Chinese government or the Chinese people．But the government, the people, the nation and the individual, are tightly connected. Frankly speaking, I regard sentences like "the Iraqi war is the fault of Bush Administration" as a lame excuse.

"When a demonstration broke out against China, the news was swiftly broadcasted, when thousands of Chinese demonstrated for China in Canada just a few days ago. Not a single western media reported that. Would you think these people have lack of news access in Canada? In that sense, western media selective broadcasting is no difference from the Chinese media." I can't speak for Canada, but many of you don't understand how news works in America. 2,000 people in Toronto and 600 in Vancouver doing a peaceful protest is NOT news. Protesting the torch rally IS news. Especially if the protesters are acting violent and causing a near riot. There are peaceful protests like this all the time in America protesting one thing or another. 2,0000 isn't many. It will get local coverage but probably not nationwide coverage. Now get 10,0000 and you've got a story. Or get 2,000 and start fighting the police and you'll get nationwide news!

Perserverance makes a good point about how Chinese people identfy themselves more strongly with 'China' and the Chinese government (even in spite of the fact that nobody votes for the government) than North Americans. All North Americans' families immigrated to their country within the last few hundred years, whereas 'Chinese' people have been in China for thousands of years. So we mostly don't have the same level of connection to our country. This is something that North Americans oftentimes don't realise.

Th unusual suspect,
a very good article from this link

http://21stcenturysocialism.com/

Yeah, that call for Carrefour boycott has been circulating on Xiaonei.com too [the Chinese facebook, some 10 million young Chinese, mostly students, have a profile there, it has gotten a very nationalistic vibe recently].

The point is not, of course, to harm Carrefour in particular. Come on, one day of boycott, that's not going to affect anyone. It's about being noticed, getting attention for your point of view.

When Greenpeace paints 'NO WHALING' on a whaler, they don't do that to ruin the fine paintwork on that ship, but to get media attention.

All fair game, I'd say.

As a Chinese, I don't want to boycott anything but IDIOT.

"Boycott China!"

"Boycott ChiComs"

"Boycott Commmie"

"Not Made in China"

on most US forum I've been to, invariably I come across some of those messages screaming out one of those lines.

Nobody gave it a damn, not even Bill Powell.

Now some netizens in China are turning the table on the west, and Time.Com find it "interesting", possibly guiding a discussion toward how young Chinese "fenqings" are brainwashed by lifelong CCP indoctrination or how Chinese government are fanning and torching the fervent nationalism "flame" (puns are always appreciated)

WTF?

@renshan:
Definitely a good article, very elaborate and enlightening

Jay is exactly right. It's not news when Chinese people support China. Everyone knows that Chinese people support China. We don't need a front page story in the New York Times to clue us in on that.

DaLiar Lama, when has Time or any of their staff suggested that the CCP is responsible for the nationalistic outpouring of the Chinese people? I suppose you have a link for us?

BB, you make a good point that boycotting Carrefour won't ruin their company but only send a strong message. The question to ask is what message will be sent? What benefit will China (or anyone in the world) get from this boycott? That's the question that skeptics are asking.

I haven't bothered posting this yet because I don't take this supposed boycott plan seriously, I doubt very much that anything will happen. Perhaps a few university students will wait one extra day before they go shopping at Carrefour but I really doubt that the stores will be empty. Carrefour customers are practical, busy people, who have a good income and not much time to go shopping, so they go to the most convenient place. I doubt many of them care enough about any boycott (even IF they hear of it) to change their plans.

But just for the sake of argument, suppose the boycott (for like the first time ever) actually goes off and nobody goes to Carrefour. What message will that send? That foreign companies are foolish to invest in China? That the foreign press isn't allowed to report on China unless they do the exact same thing as China's national press and never print anything like a negative story? That the Chinese people are too immature to handle criticism of how their government handles crises? Are those really the messages that you want to send?

Of course not. And that's why the boycott of Carrefour will not go down. Because as I already said; the overwhelming majority of Chinese people are far more reasonable than that. It's just that reasonable people doing reasonable things and having reasonable opinions are not newsworthy. Generally speaking, only the vocal minority are newsworthy, and so only they get reported on.

23 May 1951 - when a conquered and defeated Tibetan government was forced to sign an unequal 'treaty' - the so-called "17 Point Agreement on Measures for the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet" - had Tibet ever surrendered its independence.

Therefore, China's claim that 'Tibet has always been a part of China' has no basis, whatsoever, in fact that Tibetan language - both spoken and written - have no relation whatsoever with Chinese, that Tibet has its own National flag and National Anthem that while it is true various Chinese dynasties had on several occasions interfered in Tibetan affairs, it is equally true that various Tibetan kings and rulers had invaded China or otherwise exercised influence in Chinese affairs. On one occasion in 763 AD Tibetan troops even occupied Chang'an - the then Chinese capital - deposed the Chinese Emperor who was not friendly towards the Tibetans and appointed the son of another branch of the royal family as Emperor that the traditional boundary between Tibet and China was demarcated by the Peace Treaty of 821 when it was decided that the two countries shall never interfere in each other's affairs; believing that "Chinese shall be happy in the land of China and Tibetans shall be happy in the land of Tibet." The text of this Treaty - containing these ancient words of wisdom - were carved on three stone pillars - one pillar each for the two capitals of Lhasa and Chang'an and the third pillar for the border, which was placed at a placed called Gugu Meru. The third stone pillar has so far not been found.

But the texts of the other two stone pillars have been compared by independent western and Tibetan scholars and have been found to match.? that long before the Mongols established the Yuan Dynasty in China in 1279; the Tibetans established a tribute relationship with the Mongols in 1207 and thus averted a military invasion by Genghis Khan.

The ties of the Mongols with Tibet not only pre-dated their conquest of China - it was an entirely separate relationship. The Mongols never considered Tibet a Province of China. As such China's revised claim that 'Tibet has been a part of China since the Mongol rule over China' has no substance. That Tibet was recognised as an independent country during the Second World War, most importantly by China, USA and Great Britain.

This is evident from the fact that the US government had to send a mission to Lhasa in 1943 to request the Government of Tibet to permit the Allies to send military aid through Tibet to help China in its war with Japan. Needless to say, this would not have been necessary if, as the Chinese claim today, Tibet 'has always been an integral part of China'. As an independent country dedicated to the principles of peace, Tibet granted permission to the Allies to send only humanitarian assistance to China but no weapons of war. In retrospect, one cannot help feeling that Tibet is being punished today for its principled commitment to peace and for remaining neutral during the War.

More evidence can be listed to prove that Tibet was an independent country before the Communist Chinese invasion in 1949. However, for anyone willing to accept reason - the above facts should be sufficient.

ASingh:
Where was American at 763 AD? How many kingdoms were there in England then?

Is a boycott a wise move? China already believes the west is against it. A boycott will not win China any friends in Europe, and may even trigger retaliatory boycotts in future. Many Chinese people seem to enjoy this 'victim' mentality. Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Sorry jw, the fact that the country of the poster reminding us of the historical context of the debate did not yet exist does nothing to diminish the weight of his contribution. It could well be that ASingh is not American or British- a distinct possibility judging by his surname.
It's like if you told me I couldn't draw a connection between the current skyrocketing price of crude and factors resulting in the 1973 shock because I wasn't old enough- a stronger response would be to counter what ASingh is arguing with counterpoints. The tendency of some Chinese to believe that the great age of their civilization is some kind of trump card in every debate is just plain silly. The Italians and French also possess a very strong connection to the old Roman Empire, which I would argue is not any weaker than China's connection to, say, the Han Dynasty, especially after 59 years of communism and the cultural revolution. Nevertheless, the Italians and French almost never cite this in arguments, because it pertains to some relevant detail in a debate, it's just prideful hot air.

Posted by ASingh | April 17, 2008 5:49 AM

This should be enough to show the Tibet is not part of China, but under brutal military occupation.

Also regarding the boycotts of French goods by Hans - Han Chinese are freaking out and have a 'victim' mentality. When the opposite is true - Han Chinese are committing muderous genocide and also cultural genocide in Tibet.

I say stop the GENOCIDE in Tibet, Xinjiang, and Darfur, all which Communist Han Chinese regime is responsible for.

First, many thanks to Bill. I stopped reading this blog after so many upsetting comments by Simon. I joined some heated words and got so frustrated and then I decided to quit.

I just came back to have a look this evenying. I found it was Bill who has been blogging all those days, in a much more accomodating and more moderate tone. I enjoy them all. This is something I expect from a news organization as venerable as TIME.

Bill, keep on. I also wish our friend Simon have a long, long and merry holiday.

To say that Tibetan culture is being destroyed by all the Hans moving into Tibet and that they are breeding the Tibetans out of existence is as ridiculous as it is irrelevant. This kind of pure blood race talk sounds like an argument the Nazis would have used back in the day. You can't talk about culture as if it were a static thing. Culture is something that evolves and it will change whether you like it or not. Saying that culture should be preserved is about as useful as saying we should stop the universe from expanding. Why lament that not people who are not ethnically Tibetan are moving to Tibet? The argument that people shouldn't be allowed to move to a part of their country (legally recognized as such by the UN) to live and work because the people living there are different is basically apartheid. While Tibetan culture may dwindle or change, who's to say that's wrong? The shifts and merging of cultures is part of life. It's up to the people who practice the cultures themselves to preserve it. Isolating them from other people not like them is not the solution.

Andaroo- You fail to see the truth.

The Han immigration to Tibet and Xinjiang are not natural in the following ways:

a) It is state subsidized where Hans are given finacial incentives to set up shop in these foreign areas.

b) The state is using this as a method of diluting the local cultures in favour of Hans.

c) The local people of Tibet and Xinjiang are not consulted on this.

Most importantly Tibet and Xinjiang are not part of China.

Han immigration is fanning its poisonous wings of imperialism like a virus.

Now, I'll come back to all those who called us kids.

If you really think only a small number of irrational Chinese kids are rooting for a semi-boycott of Carrefour, you're deadly wrong.

I'm a young professional working in the financial field. I watch CNBC and Bloomber and read Financial Times and The Economist. I know about my work and also know about my people. My friends, some of whom are working with multi-nationals, also joined in the campaign. We're young working professionals. We read a lot and know a lot more than you think we do.

You might ask why we would do this "childish thing". Here it is:

I decided not to go to Carrefour on May 1 although I did went to a Carrefour branch in Tongzhou, Beijing the other night. The whole point of a boycott campaign is not about stopping shopping in Carrefour. That's nonsense. I just want to make a statement by joining a boycott campaign:

Some of those French people who joined in the campaign to vilidify China are really annoying to me and I want to let them know that I'm not happy about that.

Boycott is never possible or economically viable. But I have to tell those French people, you're just a buntch of self-claimed human rights upholders. If you really care about human rights, you should congratulate China for hosting a successful Olympics Game, which will absolutely bring China and the world closer. As Simon wrote in the other post, let all of us back down and take a deep breath. This is not about human rights or settling scores with China.

Again, I'm not a kidd. I still read TIME magazine, watch CNN and BBC.

I've long found out that every news organization has its stands and editorial policies. Journalistic impartiality is nonsense or dillusion from the begging. I can tell when the news organization is leaning toward right or left. So, don't worry for me and us. I can still read, watch and get my genuine, diverse and meaningful information.

But thanks for caring.

Hi,I don't think this message is ture,at least,it's not the ture message.I now live in Beijing,I don't receive this message in spite of I hope.

As we know,there are 70 Chinese word limited in one SMS,but this SMS is only 70 words?

The ture SMS is:

We hope you are able to boycott Carrefour at least on 1 May, to deliver, by the empty Carrefour that day, one message to the western world: Chinese shouldn’t be humiliated! Chinese people shouldn’t be insulted!
 The boycott against Carrefour is going to spreading all over the country, and we anticipate your presence! Thank you

Munir Ming:

Glad you read the FT, and Economist, and watch the Bloomberg. I do too for my job in the city.

But you need to believe the foreign press, and not the CCP news agency.

Maybe start beleiving Tibet is not part of China - that might help.

Asingh

i think you are one need to understand tibet is part of china. it doesn't matter it was invade or not, its a fact that no country on this planet recognize tibet is independent country, period. and china/chinese will never allow tibet to separate, so any discussion on tibet independence is moot point.

ASingh

Here you go again.

I live in a neighborhood with large population of Indians. I have many Indian co-workers and friends. I know what you stand for when the discussion is concerning China and Tibet province.

The discussion here is about these new generation of young high schoolers and college students, who enjoyed the kind of freedom and human right, etc never before in China (Of course, except free direct election. They are experimenting it in the local government.). Those slogan by the western media and politician, such as "oppression" "torture" "brutality", are too far from their life experiences there. Who know what these young kids can do. I believe eventually the voice of rational will come in and everything will calm down.

By the way, Indian invaded and occupied a part of land from Chinese Tibetans. Of course, it is not the brutality of Indian. Indian inherited it from the brutality of British.

china/chinese will never allow tibet to separate-

This shows China was militarily occupied Tibet, and that it not really part of Tibet.

Wake up man, the whole world (expect for Han Chinese) beleive it is really not part of China, but military occupation (Like in Iraq).

Why you are guys afraid of giving Tibeteans the vote to independence?

Mm, is being a nationalist one of human rights?

Jeff my friend-

I beleive the local people of place deserve to choose thier future, not an imperial power.

I am happy Gandhi kicked the British out of India.

In the same way I support His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama's peaceful struggle for freedom and his middle path of a negotiated solution with the Chinese. It will benefit both Hans and Tibeteans to can live equals like brother and sister, failing which the Tibetean people deserve full independence.

Right now, Tibet is ruled from Beijing and is not autonomous. It is ruled by Hans, not Tibeteans - all the hallmarks of an Empire.

Mm, is being a nationalist one of human rights?

Yes. Because Chinese Nationalism is essentially Han Chaveninism, which they feels gives them legitimacy to rule foreign lands like Xinjiang and Tibet through brute force that is a gross violations of human rights.

Empires committ crimes, genocide against humanity and the Chinese empire is no different.

ASingh

Why don't Indian government give the land back to Chinese tibetans? At least they can give it back to Dalai Lama and He lives in India. Let Dalai Lama build a new Shangeri-la to show the world how serfdom and theocracy work.

Jeff:

I would fully support the Indian govt giving any pieces of land back to local people as long as it is supported by the people (Tibetean or others).

If His Holiness chooses to live there, I would have no issues and would fully help to accommodate all his needs.

However the fact is: Neither Tibetean people living in India or Tibet, are claiming any land from India. Neither has His Holiness (who is the rightful leader of the Tibetean people and Tibet) ever claimed an inch of land from India.

India is a democracy that allows local elected officials to govern their lands in peace. The Indian people dont have an obsession with Imperialism.

All claims come from the Han Chavenists from Beijing who have a Tibet fetish/obsession. Since Tibet is not part of China, therefore Hans of Communist China have no claim to this land. So they can simply pi*s off.

What is interesting to watch is what do these peaceful people will do to Chinese entering the boycotted shops on May 1st. No matter what would really happen, I expect to hear reports of real civilized behaviour and extremely peaceful protesting outside of these shops. No windows will be broken. No one will be shouted at. No one will be hurt, especially those not supporting the boycott.

May 1st will be a great show case of how well behaved Chinese really are even when they are agnry.

CCTV yesterday had a reporter at one of the Carrefours, and it was still jam-packed. I wonder if the boycott will be a one time incident as described in this text message, or if many people are planning on not shopping at the store indefinitely, seeing as how the French seem to have pissed off so many nationalistic Chinese.

ASingh

Of course Dalai Lama don't want that part of land. It belongs to Panchan Lama. The Monks and temples (If they are not purged by Indian gov.)only listen to Panchan Lama. He will be chased out if he go there. Know a little history. Dalai Lama was given control of northern part of tibet. He was born in a place where Muslim dominates. His parent don't even speak tibatan when he was selected. That is why his followers hate Muslim and burned their Masque. Of course Chinese gov. covered it up. They don't want chinese muslem to storm tibetans. It happened many times in Chinese history. Chinese muslims are minority too. They don't have to bear the burn of Majority Hans.

Instead of boycotting Carrefour like programmed comrades, why dont you Chinese do something to make the world a better place like donating money to poor people in your country (China rural poor live on less than dollar a day)

@ASingh

I think you are missing the point, something that has been restated on this blog for a long time, so let me reiterate. It doesn't matter whether or not you think Tibet was/should be independent; it doesn't matter what I think, or even what John Smith, Orsino, or even Simon or Bill think. What matters is that a) China NOW controls Tibet and b) the Dalai Lama does not advocate for an independent nation- he's for an autonomous region i.e. HK/Macau.

Quoting what you said previously, "china/chinese will never allow tibet to separate-...Wake up man, the whole world (expect for Han Chinese) believe it is really not part of China, but military occupation (Like in Iraq)." The first statement is absolutely correct- China needs Tibet for its natural resources, but more importantly if it allows Tibetan independence it fragments the nation's sovereignty, leading Xinjiang and Taiwan to declare independence. Can you even imagine the CCP allowing that, giving up both control and the necessary resources to fuel its economy? The second part, the whole world believes Tibet's not a part of China? Wow...remind me again how many countries recognize Tibet as a country.

All your war-mongering over human rights is nice and all, but this is a political blog about China; human rights hasn't been the primary factor for the state. Amnesty International's site is www.amnesty.org. Write them about China and they'll probably care a lot more.

This is what Indian people think of China:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/PhotoGallery/Photos_Storypage.aspx?category=April132008India

This is communist indroctination where Hans are taught lies like such as:

a) Tibet, Xinjiang, Taiwan etc are part of China

b) Its ok to abuse human rights because the CCP needs to keep China together

c) Fear the goons and thugs of the communist party

http://www.hindustantimes.com/PhotoGallery/Photos_Storypage.aspx?category=FutureArmymen

I feel so proud that democratic nations allow people to protest and dont abuse human right.

India founding father is the great leader of non-violence Mahatma Gandhi. His ideas are the foundations of the constitution and state.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/PhotoGallery/Photos_Storypage.aspx?category=April16,2008:India

But China founding father (Mao) is more like a devil as he is responsible for mass killing, slaughter, abuses of Hans, and other minorities. The Imperialism of modern Communist China can be traced back to this backward, evil & poinsonous man. His fundamentalist ideas of Han Chavenist nationalism has infected Hans worldwide that clouds their ability to act objectively, fairly or kindess when dealing with human rights, animal rights, or minority rights.

It is an infection worse than a virus that each Han Chavenist must be cured by reverse indroctination.

I can not help myself from recommending this thread on pbs.org (Public Broadcasting Service) about the policy and situation in TAR. It was started by 'M.A.Jones',a westerner, he ctually put together a strong arguement backed with lots of cited reference.
This is the best ever display of effort on the internet I've ever seen. It is very long, but it is worth your time if you have real interests on this issue.

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=68073&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

To Jay:

You are wrong. People got angry not because the Canada media didn't pay attention to 2,000 people protest.

It's because there was a Tibetan protest in the same time, with about 20 people. And media paid more attention to that one instead of Chinese'.

I am a Chinese living in Canada. I wouldn't believe this until I checked newspapers in Toronto personally.

"What matters is that a) China NOW controls Tibet"

Bush should thank you for your support of US occupancy of Iraq, and Putin must thank you for your support of Jumbo Island and can stop negotiating with China about mutually claimed territories, and Japan should thank you for occupancy of Diaoyutai. You should have spoken earlier so that Margret Thatcher can thank you for your support of British ownership of Hong Kong.

Since India is in control of all the land Chinese claimed as Chinese, India should now make that occupancy permanent, thanks to your support.

南无阿弥陀佛!

If being a nationalist is one of human rights, Chinese people shouldn't feel anguished of being called “nationalists” by anybody. Be proud nationalists, my dear Chinese folks. Remember this is your human right that should be cherished and enjoyed^___^

@perseverance

Helpful comments.

The labor unions are probably delighted that the Chinese netizens are calling for a boycott of Carrefour or any French corporation operating in China. These are the same people strongly supported the torch protests.

China's Peoples Daily english edition actually ran an article few days ago trying to play down the Carrefour boycott as something ineffective - and that more trade is better.

Our gut feeling is that the general French population thinks Carrefour doing business in China is a good thing. We believe the average citizen intuitively understands that the company gives a portion of its profits as corporate tax to the French - not to mention other profits are then divy up by the investors - which sould primarily be French.

How do you really measure then the amount of pressure this boycott actually is exerted onto the French?

Well, a bunch of racists are calling other non-white people nationalists. What do they mean by that?

In their mind, they think non-white people should subordinate to the white people and white culture. Any deviation from that would be called by names.

Are white people inheritantly racism-oriented no matter what education they have?

(This comment is written for people who want to have a real debate or discussion. If anyone just want to shout slogans, please skip this)

US has no a legitimated claim over Iraq, so what he is doing in Iraq is arguable under current internation law system.

Every single country on this planet recognises China's sovereignty over Tibet. No matter you like or not, the fact remains here. This fact alone leads to the legal legitimacy of China's sovereign claim on Tibet under the international law. You may not like to admit this, but it's a fact. You may go and find a lawyer to double check about this internation law consequence.

In history, there was only one country ever had a quite vague standing over the Tibet status. That was the British Empire due to her own agenda, to clear her way and justify the 1903 invasion of Tibet in 'The Great Game'. 'In 1942, British Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden wrote a note presented to the Chinese government which describes Tibet as, "an autonomous State under the suzerainty of China" that "enjoyed de facto independence."' However, at any point of time, Britain is/was completely isolated on this issue internationally. Britain now aslo admit the Chinese sovereignty over Tibet.

Here is a testimony of the US Department of Sates during the hearing before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee [1]:
"The United States considers the Tibet Autonomous Region or TAR (hereinafter referred to as "Tibet") as part of the People's Republic of China. This longstanding policy is consistent with the view of the entire international community, including all China's neighbors: no country recognizes Tibet as a sovereign state. Moreover, U.S. acceptance of China's claim of sovereignty over Tibet predates the establishment of the People's Republic of China. In 1942, we told the Nationalist Chinese government then headquartered in Chongqing (Chungking) that we had "at no time raised (a) question" over Chinese claims to Tibet."

The Dalai claimed 'de facto independence' of Tibet btween 1911~1951 is the consequce of the turmoil after 1911 Chinese Revolution. Do you know every single province of China once declared independence before the Japan invasion? Some of them also kept the de facto independence for quite long time. Why can Tibet be special to avoid the final unifaction? Even if there is no communists, the KMT would definitely do this true. When China was in the weakest time during the anti-japan war, KMF still insisted to keep the claim over Tibet. Here is the answer from US to the claim [2]:

"For its part, the Government of the United States has borne in mind the fact that the Chinese Government has long claimed suzerainty over Tibet and that the Chinese constitution lists Tibet among areas constituting the territory of the Republic of China. This Government has at no time raised a question regarding either of these claims."

I am not saying this Chinese control over Tibet is morally justified, but just trying to make the legal/illegal arguement clear. The Chinese control over Tibet is legal and justified under the international law.

The only things actaully arguable about Tibet is the Dalai Lama claimed human rights abuses and 'culture genocide' over there, which actually are exaggerated by the Tibetan activists (I think, no time to find references).

For details, you may want to read this:
http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=68073&postdays=0&postorder=asc&topic_view=&start=0

Nice comment John Smith.

Even for sake of argument, the lands 'occupied' are by India (as per Chinese propoganda)such as Arunachal Pradesh, Sikkhim and Ladakh etc - The fact is you are not getting it back!! Tough!!

Moreover as said earlier, Tibet is not part of China. All claims come from the Han Chavenists from Beijing who have a Tibet fetish.

Since Tibet is not part of China, therefore Hans of Communist China have no claim to this land. So they can simply pi*s off, and watch this.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/PhotoGallery/Photos_Storypage.aspx?category=April132008India

ASingh

Take a break and cool off.

Have a cup of coffee and watch this.

http://www.funnyjunk.com/pages/mydog.htm

Jeff

You do you eat dogs?

ASingh,

You're a spiritual warrior in your actions by reaching out to those who need guidance, and thou your words will be read by many more than who actually respond to your message of kindness, equality and honesty. Its promising that some with fresh thoughts, will wish for a new China that will join hand in hand with Tibetans.

There is much the insensitive person could learn by the Dalai Lama's 'middle way'.

But i have to tell you of a old Tibetan proverb 'you can bring a pig to water, but you can't make him cross the stream'. Like an alcoholic in denial some of these cock suckers are too stupid to swim with the rest of the world.

The truth is that I really like Chinese people. All Chinese people I have met have been good people to be friends with etc.

But the political indroctination and Han nationalism turns these good people into cruel, brutal racists who become Imperialists.

Simon would you please post the chinese text of the SMS message that your friend received?

Inquiring minds want to have a look at it.

oh, I should have said Bill, sorry. Bill, would you kindly post the chinese text of the SMS message? thx

Asingh
Don't even bother convincing anyone to believe your so-called truth that Tibet is not part of China. It won't work.
By the way, your voice can only be reached to a tiny tiny proportion of Chinese people.
Just mind your own business.

peng200b: mind your own business. If ASingh wants to express his opinion, butt out !! Why Chinese is the only audience ASingh wants to reach ? Because Chinese people needs his voice ? Goons and thug like you in the Hu Wen Clique trying to enforce Chinese laws on expression won't work here.

Every one here probably have read enough messages from the Hu Wen cliques of internet goons and thugs to realize that these people probably won't let democracy to work. Here is another way they are doing to ruin it:
http://chinanews.sina.com/news/2008/0416/21062642481.html

They tried to make money before all the people get to learn what democracy is all about.

ASingh

No. I don't eat dogs, but I do eat pigs.

I don't like to see boycotting anyone. The young kids try to make a point. They have the right to do it. It is a free world. It is a learning process for them.

"I think the West tends to forget one simple fact when they jump on the bandwagon to bash china, the Chinese are a people of 1.3billion, and they have a long standing civilization of 5,000 years. It's pretty hard to brainwash them anyway."

So size of population and long history will protect China ? What happened 1937 ? China has a huge population then too, and not much shorter history, when compare 5000 years with 4930 years of history. A tiny little nation, with one fifth of the population of China, beat China into a pulp.

And during late 1800, only a bit over a hundred years before now, China also had a huge population and a huge army - 300 thousand or more - and got beaten into a pulp by 10 thousand marines after enduring months at sea, and walked all the way to Peking. Why didn't the huge population and long history protect China then.

Oh, just because people were invading, and therefore China had to loose ?

If the only defence China has is long history and huge population, the world is very safe.

Why would Mr/s. ASingh ask someone if they eat dogs?

Why are Chinese people Imperialistic?

The fenqing in China are all shouting boycott of western goods. I wonder whether they realize that the internet is an evil invention of the ugly and filthy Amreicans. They should all boycott anything to do with the internet. No e-mailing, no blogging, and no reading the crazy western media sites to contaminate their little and pure innocent mind.

I think we must spread the word of how corrupting the internet is and all Chinese should avoid the stupid creation of the US government with ulterior motive to infiltrate the Chinese minds.

peng200b:

This is not China.

We all have our rights to free speech.

I dont tell you to shut up, but analyse your views. Suggest you and other Hans here do the same to develop your critical and lateral thinking skills, which are so underdeveloped at the moment.

Let's move away from these harsh labels and judgments, particularly when they are broad swipes at racial/national groups. Such statements and rhetorical questions are not constructive.

Quote from Pomfret's China blog on whashingtonpost.com

'KC, Los Angeles, U.S.A. for China:

Let me give an analogy for freedom in China:

Everyone desires to have a big house and a fancy car, but it is a matter of HOW and WHEN that individual will afford to get them in their own pace. If anyone forces that individual to buy those items immediately, not based on his current financial and social conditions, that individual will doom either to rob to afford them (with blood) or to live very miserably (with cold night sweats).

Every Chinese also desires to have the same democracy and freedom. HOW and WHEN to afford them without social unrest are the main questions. If anyone in the West tries to force the Chinese government to provide the freedom overnight, without considering China's current economic and social conditions, Chinese will doom either with bloody civil wars or economic and social disasters.

Everybody and every country is different. Some smart people can get rich earlier and afford big houses; it doesn't mean that you could afford the same.

Same smaller countries can achieve "true" democracy in a shorter time and easier way; it doesn't mean that China, with such a huge population and land mass, can travel the same path with the same pace.

The West struggled a few hundred years to get to this day. And, don't forget that the West were also rich by looting many treasures from those poor countries, including China, and those rich middle class (from looting) formed a good foundation for the democratic reforms.

The new China is only 30 years old. I am very confident China will come up with HOW and WHEN to reach the prosperous and true democratic society in its own terms.'

There shouldn't be any debate about whether China is strong any more. Iran has already declared that it is the strongest country in the world. All China can claim now is the second best.

Iran, with great help from her friend China is now the strongest. I hope China will accept the thank you from Iran.

If you say that a democracy is a system of government that gives its citizens the right to vote, then it is arguable that the US and much of Europe did not become a true democracy until the early 20th century when women were finally granted the right to vote. Perhaps the US was not a real democracy as late as 1965 when the US federal gov't finally enacted a law that stopped many US states from preventing African Americans from having the right to vote. In either situation, these countries were economically developed before they became true democracies, ones that no longer disenfranchised more than 50% of the adult population.

It is the west who said China will be the superpower, no chinese will say this. We still have a long way to go, but anyway we are already strong enough to do self-defence.

peng200b, just let them scream and show off how 'civilized' they are, that's anyway the only thing they can do.

The goon Hu and the thug Wen and their cliques are spreading conspiracy theory of the world wide furor against China for the atrocity committed by China on various minorities in China again.

Of course, there is a conspiracy. Hu Wen clique knew before hand that the Games in Beijing is going to be a disaster, that the blue green algae is starting again, the air pollution in China is changing color, the food price hike due to confiscation of agricultural land to give to their friends and family, the running away inflation, the massive exodus of manufacturing jobs, the run away wrecking train of corruption, etc. etc. Hu Wen clique is using the well practised plot to side track the attention of the Chinese people by creating the uprising of minorities, and blaming the rest of the world for their PR disaster. Of course, the well trained Chinese people will follow the instructions from the Hu Wen clique without fail. Those 50 years of "re-education" is very effective. By raising the anger of the Chinese people against the outside, Hu Wen clique is hoping that they can hold on to power forever.

Hu Wen clique learned that by creating a Cultural Revolution like program in China will save their positions just like Mao did, as they know that the Chinese people react to this kind of manipulation very easily.

Guys,

Let's make Beijing Olympic the last one. Let's not have Olympic no more. Olympic has made the whole world crazy, insane. Well, we might need psychiatric Olympics.

Wow, Hu Wen clique, sounds familiar. It is a unique way to call Hu&Wen by Falun Dafa. John Smith, are you a member of Falun Gong? Have your third eye opened? hmmm, can you feel the fa-wheel circling in your adomen?

Jeff

Why? it is such a huge party. Chinese people and lots of other people enjoy the Games, Dalai clique enjoys dancing on the street and chasing the torch. The media got a lot of headline news. Lots of western people get very high for different reasons. Lots of netizens get crazy and find a new way to kill time. Everyone has fun here and there. Next time, one new sport should be added into the Olympics: Catching the torch, and the winner should get the honor to extinguish the main flame at the end of the closing ceremony of the Games.

Orsino

BRAVO.

"Wow, Hu Wen clique, sounds familiar. It is a unique way to call Hu&Wen by Falun Dafa."

Hmm.. The Chinese Foreign Ministry must be infiltrated by the Falungong, since they use "clique" to describe the freedom fighters from Tibet!!!

U.S. Academic Defends China, Citing Progress
New Book Explains
Beijing's Perspective
On Sports, Olympics
By IAN JOHNSON
April 15, 2008; Page A9

(See Corrections & Amplifications item below.)

BEIJING -- Susan Brownell has qualifications that few can match as an authority on sports in China.

An academic and Virginia native, Ms. Brownell speaks and reads Chinese. She has lived in China for years and knows all the top Chinese sports officials. To top it off, she was a nationally ranked U.S. track-and-field athlete who also competed on Chinese teams.

SPORTING INTEREST

• Background: Susan Brownell, a University of Missouri, St. Louis, anthropologist, is an expert on Chinese sports. She speaks Chinese and was once a track-and-field athlete.
• Her View: She believes China's sports system isn't an evil medal machine as sometimes portrayed, and she says Beijing is a worthy Olympics host.But Ms. Brownell has a conclusion that many in the West might find surprising: that China's sports system isn't the evil medal machine portrayed in the popular press. She also thinks China will not only put on a good Olympics but is a worthy host in the best tradition of the Olympics -- even with the turmoil in the West over Tibet.

"The moment is right for China to hold the games," says Ms. Brownell, who thinks the uproar can help push a rethink in China about its policy toward Tibet and other minorities. "How it responds, we'll see."

Susan Brownell
Ms. Brownell has laid out her views in her second book on China's sports system, "Beijing's Games: What the Olympics Mean to China," which was published in February. She says she expects the book to be widely criticized.

In fact, she says even her mother had trouble with the book.

Last summer, when she was revising the book, she went home to visit her mother and asked her to review it. While Ms. Brownell sat on an upstairs balcony reading proofs, she began to hear her mother on the patio below.

"She'd yell upstairs her disapproval," Ms. Brownell says. "It was the idea that China is an evil government that oppresses its people -- human rights, religious freedom and so on."

Ms. Brownell doesn't dispute that China has problems, but she says many Western criticisms are hypocritical or ignore the huge progress China has made in many areas. More than that, she sees the two sides' failure to understand each other as a tragedy.

"When you see the enthusiasm, the idealism and the faith in a better future and then when you look at the perception abroad -- that it's propping up a regime, air pollution, child-athlete factories -- there is a disjuncture," Ms. Brownell says.

Ms. Brownell, a 47-year-old anthropologist at the University of Missouri, St. Louis, has also recently translated into English the biography of China's only member of the International Olympic Committee. And she has gone further, sometimes advising Chinese officials on how to be more effective in communicating with the West.

In the small world of academics who write on sports in China, Ms. Brownell's positions are by far the most optimistic.

"Susan wants to counteract prejudices against the PRC and she seems, sometimes, to become an apologist for the regime," wrote Allen Guttmann, a professor at Amherst College in Massachusetts who has written on sports history, in an email answer to a query. "Mostly, however, I think she's about as objective as is possible. I don't think, in anthropological jargon, that she's 'gone native.'"

Susan Brownell is in Beijing on a Fulbright grant, researching a book on the Games.
Ms. Brownell says some of her sympathy for China comes from her personal athletic and educational background. She grew up on a farm near the Appalachian Mountains in Lexington, Va. That was before the Title IX federal act required schools to give girls equal access to sports. She ran on the boys track team in high school and went to University of Virginia on a full athletic scholarship. She was immediately attracted to anthropology because she felt it tried to understand other cultures rather than immediately judge them.

In sports, her disciplines were the pentathlon and heptathlon. She competed in the 1980 and 1984 Olympic trials but didn't make the team. She went to China the next year as a graduate student in anthropology at the University of California, Santa Barbara. While in China, she competed for a team made up of Beijing athletes in the 1986 National College Games. Her stunning success -- she won a gold in the heptathlon and two silvers -- earned her the sobriquet of "The American Girl Who Won Glory for Beijing."

She was on her way to qualifying for the 1988 U.S. Olympic trials, which would have meant an impressive three straight trials. But she realized that it wasn't her profession anymore and stayed on in China. "I had to say I am an anthropologist, not an athlete," she said.

In 1995, she came out with a book on the growing importance of sport in China, which also recounted her adventures in Chinese athletics. She said participating in China made her realize that Chinese athletes are hardly different from other countries'.

"I got involved in figure skating in the U.S. and believe me, the children there are up at all hours practicing, and the parents are pushing them, too," she says. "When I see things like 'assembly line of pain' in the U.S. media to describe Chinese sports schools, I think it's ridiculous."

Susan Brownell, far left, accepting the sixth-place award for Beijing University in the 1986 Beijing City College Meet.
One of the main problems, she says, is that the people who write about Chinese sports know very little about China. "One of the problems really is sports journalism," she says. "Most sports journalists are commentators and don't really investigate."

Western reporters, she says, also assume that much is secret in China and use that as an excuse to make all sorts of claims or generalizations. She was recently asked by a reporter for a national U.S. magazine to use her contacts to get him a copy of China's policy on athletes' commercial endorsements. Half an hour later, Ms. Brownell emailed the reporter a copy -- it had been on the sport authority's Internet site. "People assume it's all secret in China but that's only because they can't read Chinese," she says.

Likewise, she views skeptically generalizations about Chinese not having a sports history -- a critique often made to debase China's gold-medal haul. The argument is that China participates in the Olympics only to win national glory and not out of any legitimate sporting tradition. But Ms. Brownell says that most of what we know about the Olympics is based on more than a century of intense archaeological work in Greece. That sort of work has never been done in China, she says.

A cursory glance at the written record, however, shows that some sports, such as horse racing and wrestling, played key roles in some of the dynasties that ruled China. "China has been written out of sports history," she says.

This accounts for the lack of non-Western sports in the Olympics -- in fact, the only explicitly non-Western sports are judo from Japan (introduced at the 1964 Tokyo games) and tae kwan do from Korea (introduced at the 1988 Seoul games). China tried to get its own form of martial arts, wushu, introduced this year, but the request was turned down.

Although she now has tenure at the university, her efforts to understand -- and even help -- China haven't always been to her professional advantage. She spent four years translating the biography of IOC member He Zhenliang for a government-run press in China. She did it because she "felt a sense of mission" to explain China's IOC involvement from its point of view. She has also screened government Olympic ads aimed at foreigners.

"Chinese do have trouble communicating with Westerners," she says. "They are more reserved and formal and careful."

Ms. Brownell is in Beijing for the year on a Fulbright grant. She is researching a book on how the Games played out and putting down her thoughts occasionally on a blog (http://thechinabeat.blogspot.com/). The U.S. Embassy in Beijing has asked her to write a biweekly blog.

"I view my work as a cultural bridge. I assume that how I write is not how Chinese people see it, and they wouldn't agree with everything, but I do my best to represent their views so they can be understood by English speakers

"What matters is that a) China NOW controls Tibet"

Almost forgot about this one. This is big.

The Republic of China NOW controls Taiwan. Thanks for the firm support of ROC's continued reign over Taiwan.

Hmm.. mentioning Falun Dafa reminds me of the issue with "cults". The CCP is the biggest and cruelest cult in the world history. It killed more people than any other cult. Most of them Han Chinese. Must be sacrifices to their "leaders". It demands blind believe from people, not just its followers. It classifies people into hierarchies. It encourages people to put up shrines of their so call "leaders". It call its priest "officials", "cadre". They have temples like the Mao tomb. No wonder CCP sees all other religions as competion, and hence the genocide of Moslems and Tibetan Buddhists, and cultural destruction of other religions.

A great conspiracy theory can be created out of this...

Here is another theory about the boycott of French stores.

Deng and Zhou both were students in France. And these two characters brought back Communism after they spend a few years in France, pretending to be studying, but actually working part time, and organized the Communist Party in Paris. These two brought Communism back from France. That's why all Chinese now think that France is their greatest enemy, and rightly so. France gave them Communism which kept China in chains for decades, and they now want revenge.

CNN bad mouth China too, but no Chinese is calling for boycott of CNN. May be it is an indirect recognition of CNN's contribution to the freedom of Chinese ?

Anyway, I won't worry about the boycott of French goods too much. It is just talk, no action. If they really want to boycott French goods, stop buying cognac, French perfume, French wine. Stop buying Chinese made goods in a store with French name don't cut it.

Oh, don't fly Airbus.

John Smith
Don't talk like you are an expert of Chinese.

To ASing

"Maybe start beleiving Tibet is not part of China - that might help."

I've never got a message from any news outlet which says Tibet is not a part of China. Did you mean I should believe something that just exists in your fantasy?

I watch CNN and BBC, and I also watch TVBS of Taiwan, CCTV of China and Channel News Asia of Singapore. That's why I get a much diverse information source than you do and have a much sounder evaluation of reality.

You just need read more and watch more, not just to believe what you choose to believe.

Why would you try some?

Peng200b

John Smith is a follower of Falun Dafa, so don't be surprised by his Ridiculity.

So, this John Smith, probaly a young, frustrated and angry guy from Taiwan has come back. Hi, there. How is your president? Do you understand which one I mean?

I don't know which brand of your mobile,but I know that my mobile can not receive a SMS as long as yours.And I have never receive this SMS.

從我們被稱為東亞病夫時起就已經被當作“黃禍”。 　
當我們被宣傳為下一個超級大國時，我們又被當成了威脅。 　

當我們關上大門時，你們靠走私毒品來“打開市場”。

當我們想拒絕毒品時，你們就用武力強行推銷。　

等我們也信奉自由貿易時，你們卻責?我們奪走了你們的工作。

當我們碎裂成幾片時，你們的軍隊闖進來要求公平分贓。 　

當我們把碎片重拼接好時，你們又叫囂要“解放被入侵的夕藏”。

我們嘗試共產主義，你們恨我們是共產分子。

好，我們接納了資本主義，你們又恨我們是資本家。

當我們有十億人民時，你們說我們正在壓垮這個星球。

於是我們實行了計劃生育，可是你們又說這是違反人權。

當我們貧窮時，你們認為我們是狗。

當我們借給你們現金時，你們又罵我們使你們負了債。

當我們建設我們的工業時，你們稱我們是污染者。 　

你們一邊享用我們提供的物美價廉的商品，一邊責備我們助長了溫室效應。 　

當我們購買石油時，你們嚷嚷著“剝削非洲和支持種族屠殺”。

而當你們為石油發動戰爭時，你們說它是“解放”。
當我們在動亂時，你們驚呼，然後要插手替我們制定律法。

當我們依法平息暴亂時，你們稱這是“野蠻鎮壓”。

當我們沈默時，你們說我們沒有言論自由。 　

當我們不再沈默時，你們又說我們仇外，因為全都被洗了腦。　

“你們為什麼那麼恨我們？”我們不禁要問。

“不不不，我們不恨任何人，我們西方世界一向文明、公平、寬容、博愛……”

“你們理解我們嗎？”我們不禁疑惑。

“開什麼玩笑，這還用問？！”你們說，“別忘了我們有世界上最好的媒體——AFP、CNN和BBCs.”

中国崛起之日就是中国民主之时，正是西方闭嘴之日。

Dear ASingh,

let me remind you a few interesting things:

1. It took the British colonial rule to suppress such amazing achievements of Indian culture as the custom of sati in Rajasthan (self-immolation of widows) and the cult of Thugs...Apparently, before the British came to rule over you, there were no objections to this little tidbits of local culture in people's heads. Also, please remember that the word "Thug" is of Indian origin.

2. There never was a country called "India" before 1947 in its modern borders. Your country is the creation of British Raj. Some of its parts were, in effect, forcefully annexed to it. Does the name Goa ring bell? What about Sikkim? Before throwing your accusations, make sure your own walls are not made of glass.

3. Given what you say, I can say with equal degree of certainty that the States of Southern India, such as Tamilnadu, have all the rights in the world to break away from India instead of subsidising such heaps of trash as UP or Bihar. If you're logically consistent with your Tibet Independence claims, you should agree to this one as well. If you don't know Tamil people who don't like to be part of India, let me know and I will introduce you to some of them

Here is an investigative report indicating that the current wave of anti-China protests is directly orchestrated by a certain US government sponsored "Non-Government Organization" called National Endowment for Democracy. Their objective is to trigger a "Color Revolution" in China's Tibet as a part of the US geopolitical plot.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8625

well, since carrefour in china is on a grand sale, i thank the chinese boycotter for me to take full advantage of this chance.

this weekend, i'm getting food and beverages that'll last me for at least couple months.

thanks

China wants to use the Games to showcase itself to the world.
I have another theory. Certain members of the leadership had to know the State could not control the media during the Games. Nor can they control the people who will visit for the sole reason of protesting China's policies.

There are leaders within the Party who are using the Games to destabilize the country. The Games will be the first time in Communist China's history where the citizens will have almost unlimited access to the global media.

Consider the amount of protest with the Torch. The protests will continue. What will China's reaction be if 100 people rush the field during the Opening Ceremonies? Will they beat them on live T.V.? Will the athletics themselves use the Games to protest?
What happens when thousands of people start chanting "Free Tibet!"
There are too many ways to use the Games to bring attention to China's dark side.

The Games will mark the beginning of the end for Communist China. The floodgates are open and the trickle will turn into a torrent.

Many posts, also on other blogs and news websites, make me think of the following sentence:

"Don't assume Chinese are stupid, just because you don't understand their reasoning."

There have been loads of books written about the Chinese character. And even the authors of those admit that it is a near impossible task to make a complete description.

If you try to explain or comment on China's actions, using non-Chinese reasoning or values, you are bound to fail or come up with nonsense.

One example: some Westerners rather die than live without freedom. Most Chinese people rather feed themselves first, before dealing with luxuries like freedom. It's not that they don't care about freedom, it's just that their priorities are different. In this case, imposing a 'rule' (that seems totally logical to a Westerner) on the Chinese actions, will make Chinese seem inhumane and oppressive.

There are many other situations like that, such as 'stability vs freedom', or 'economic growth vs environmentalism'.

Many posts, also on other blogs and news websites, make me think of the following sentence:

"Don't assume Chinese are stupid, just because you don't understand their reasoning."

There have been loads of books written about the Chinese character. And even the authors of those admit that it is a near impossible task to make a complete description.

If you try to explain or comment on China's actions, using non-Chinese reasoning or values, you are bound to fail or come up with nonsense.

One example: some Westerners rather die than live without freedom. Most Chinese people rather feed themselves first, before dealing with luxuries like freedom. It's not that they don't care about freedom, it's just that their priorities are different. In this case, imposing a 'rule' (that seems totally logical to a Westerner) on the Chinese actions, will make Chinese seem inhumane and oppressive.

There are many other situations like that, such as 'stability vs freedom', or 'economic growth vs environmentalism'.

Sorry, I got an error on the first posting. Please remove one of the two versions, and this message itself. :)

There has been some dialog between here between Chinese and Buddhist community that is progressive. From the group, a high Lama is very worried about the quality of info coming out of Tibet, only government propaganda. At the end of one day a chinese student claimed china a new nation with some growing problems and would one day hope to invite all Tibetans back to live in peace.

What is good about her statement is she admitted to a problem, and problems can only be fixed when they are identified as such.

So i will make one brief apology for my language on this blog, but i'm one pissed of Buddhist at the way my brothers are being treated in Tibet.

Unfortunately, it is not easy to share China’s dream, without sharing Tibet’s grief. There are other issues with China too ­ links to the Darfur genocide, to the Burmese junta, trampling human rights and free speech, threatening democracies like Taiwan, and a general abhorrence of democratic freedoms.

Unfortunately, the Dragon’s way of "lighting the passion" makes you cringe. It breaths fire at anyone who dares to bring up Tibet, kills monks and other protesters, and badmouths one of the world’s most respected spiritual leaders, calling the Dalai Lama a lowly conspirer and "serial liar".

The Olympic torch parade that was supposed to celebrate China’s rise as a superpower has become a Flame of Shame highlighting ruthless arrogance and contempt for democratic freedoms. It has in fact made many innocents around the world sit up and uncomfortably take notice of the country behind the "Made in China" label that fills their homes.

To add to China’s woes, its burly "flame attendants" have not been popular. These tracksuited paramilitary forces have been widely disliked for their brusque pushing and shoving and rudely ordering the athletes about, and were called "thugs" in London. In spite of their efforts, there have been furious protests in London, in Paris ­ where the flame was snuffed out four times, then swiftly hidden in a bus to save it from more ignominy ­ and in San Francisco, where the administration lied to the people about the route to mislead huge crowds of protesters and allow the heavily-armed and guarded torch a quick run on an empty stretch of road. In Islamabad, the torch was confined to the Jinnah Stadium. The space for the spirit of the Olympic flame was shrinking alarmingly.

Since the dragon government pundits don't acknowledge its own mistakes, the lies seem to be piling up as the serpent of suffering continues its abuse of nationalistic pride over the needs of its growing population. Hopes for Tibetans seem to be fading in the western Sun but the history books will bring the light in to the cave of blind bats to get to the truth of the persecution of a culture of peaceful religious people who deserve there day in court.

Can the whole world be wrong about China as it tries to prove it belong to the world community...

Let's see if the boycutt will be success.

You can humiliate me, but you cannot insult to my country.

It is not an arguementation, but I still want to ask some questions to the people who said quite stupid above.

Will you all belive what have been said on the newspaper about your own country? If not, why you completely agree with what have been published about China by the mass media?

We hold it self-evidence that everyone is born to be equal. But why don't you respect people from different background or culture?

To enhance the human right, does it mean we should use violence to protest? How fatuous it is to use violence to seek peace?

I will take part in the activity of boycuutt.

michael:

None of the states you name such as Tamil Nadu, Sikkhim etc want to break free from India. India is a democracy that is govererned by local elected people. The masses elect the govt.

Unlike China, where the Ha