So You Wanna Be a Hizballah Fighter?

Very informative Andrew. A rare glimpse. Sounds much like the Hitler Youth, honestly.

For all of their "terror", they are none-too-different than Israel. In 1948, the US was the first country to recognize Israel as a legitimate state. Israel thanked us by sending their spies over here (and they still do). In 1948, Iran became the 2nd country to recognize Israel's state. They thank Iran by spreading lies and propaganda in hopes of building their own weapons arsenals and taking attention off of their malfeasances. Israel engaged in several acts of terrorism both against Arab countries and United States/British citizens in the past. Let's not be selective with our history.

Hezbollah is a legitimate resistance movement to an occupation over land that once was their's. I don't care what BlackJack or the others post here -- everytime I look up what they say, it seems to show that they were either deliberately lying or posting from a source that was incredibly wrong. This whole Hezbollah is a terrorist organization thing is a media war the west has been waging.

Speaking of media wars, Hezbollah, and Israel:
What about the 1967 war and the exaggeration of Israel's army strength against a "massive and united" Arab front? You can take little steps like reading the wikipedia article (which is written pretty objectively) to make up your own mind about this mythology that's been spread by Western proponents of an illegal occupation. The Israeli army outnumbered and out gunned the Arabs in many ways. On top of that, they had training by and armaments from Western forces whereas the Arabs had World War I weapons. To say that the 1967 war showed the world that Israel's army was all-powerful is ridiculous when you look at it in contrast to the recent war they stalemated on (lost) against Hezbollah.

As for Hitler youth -- the IDF also recruits at a fairly young age and the ideology of the soldier/citizen and Jews being "God's Chosen People" is hammered into them at a young age. Maybe they don't have to join the army until they're in their late teens, but the process starts way earlier.

When I compared them to the Hitler Youth, I was thinking mostly about indoctrination at an early age and the emphasis on adherance to a strict ideology, not about the pervasive anti-Semetism.

Still, recruiting children for indoctrination is never a good thing, even if it's Israel or the West doing the indoctrination.

Agreed, Nathan.

Agreed, Nathan.

Here we go again- fine tuned propoganda for deceiving the uninformed. "process by which they became members of the formidable anti-Israeli militia." Yea- didn't they start out as anti American / western presence in Lebanon??? Do you mean by anti Israel- anti western and anti democratic??? or Anti Jewish??? After all they did bomb a Jewish cultural center in Argentina. PS Hizbullah - like the Hitler youth all hit rock bottom because everyone knows- especially Israeli moms- that investing in an education is more important than investing in the boy scouts. One comparison alone can put eveything inperspective. Hizbullah gets it's weapons imported from Iran. Israeli's make many of their own weapons frpm technology they developed because they went to school.

From the inception of Hezbollah to the present, the elimination of the State of Israel has been one of Hezbollah's primary goals. Its 1985 manifesto reportedly states "our struggle will end only when this entity [Israel] is obliterated. In an interview with the Washington Post, Nasrallah said "I am against any reconciliation with Israel. I do not even recognize the presence of a state that is called 'Israel.

Israel's occupation of the Shebaa Farms, along with the presence of Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails, is often cited as justification – and invoked as a pretext, according to many for Hezbollah's continued hostilities against Israel even after Israel's verified withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000. Hezbollah's spokesperson Hassan Ezzedin, however, had this to say about an Israeli withdrawal from Sheba Farms:

"If they go from Shebaa, we won't stop fighting them. ... Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine, ... The Jews who survive this war of liberation can go back to Germany or wherever they came from. However, that the Jews who lived in Palestine before 1948 will be 'allowed to live as a minority and they will be cared for by the Muslim majority.

1) Refusing U.N. partition and launching a war.
2) Launching several more wars, losing again, following up with an infamous Arab League resolution of "no recognition, no negotiation, no peace."
3) Decades of intransigence
4) Airline hijackings
5) Suicide bombings
6) Constant exhortations of "martyrdom."
7) Refusal to consider the fact that there are conseuqences for launching wars and then losing them.
8) Constant burning of American flags
9) 'Revolutionary' 'Symbol of the People' stealing billions of dollars in international aid roll for his own personal gain/patronage scheme, while keeping his people in squalor.
9) Masked "militants" brandishing AK-47's holding "demonstrations" and "parades" every day.
10) Electing a terrorist organization into government
11) That terrorist organization participating in a "military adventure" killing and kidnapping non-occupation soldiers and then screaming about the "humanitarian crisis" that ensues as if, again, there are supposedly no consequences for their actions.

There seems to be a misunderstanding here about who hizbollah are.
They are specifically a Lebanese resistance movement. They set up to resist the Israeli invasion of Lebanon which was designed to push the palestinians away from the Israeli border.

They are not specifically anti-western though they came to notoriety in the west thanks to the bombing of French and US military peacekeepers in Beirut in the early 80s.

They haven't lost any wars, they succeeded in pushing Israel back into the southern buffer 'state' in the south of Lebanon and they succeeded in pushing them out of Lebanon altogether. And they also won their recent spat with Israel's half-arsed invasion of southern Lebanon. Here's the recent analysis by the US Army's historian Mark Matthews in PDF; fascinating reading.
http://usacac.army.mil/CAC/csi/RandP/OP26.pdf

The only remaining 'land that was once theirs' are the Shebaa farms. Despite Nasrallah's rhetoric, Hizbollah has no intention of 'liberating' Palestine or destroying Israel and he admitted miscalculation over the provocation that led to that.

And I loved the earlier cunning mix of truth and lies. Yes the Israelis committed terrorist acts against Arabs and the British, many of the old guard in Israeli politics have been remarkably frank about this period in their history. But when have they done this against the US? If you say 9/11 I won't even merit that with a response.

And Blackjack you seem to be talking mostly about Palestinians, with a sort of general conflation to all Arabs. Required reading to help you genuinely understand Lebanon's spectacularly complex recent history is Pity The Nation by Robert Fisk or Paradise Divided by Alex Klaushofer.

And I also loved your 'non occupation soldiers'; the lady doth protest too much methinks.

Israel's Terrorist Acts (Indirectly or Directly Against the US):

May 1948: The U.S. appointed Count Folke Bernadotte of Sweden to mediate between the Arabs and the Israelis. In his first progress report (of Sept. 16, 1948) he recommended that the U.N. should affirm "the right of the Arab refugees to return to their homes in Jewish controlled territory at the earliest possible date." The Israelis responded in their own quiet way. The following day Bernadotte was murdered in Jerusalem. [Fine, she was Swedish, but the US had a vested interest in her appointment.]

July 1954: Israeli intelligence planted "a ring of spies (Moles)" in Cairo, its task was to begin sabotage operations against selected Egyptian, British and American targets...On July 14, the Alexandria post office was fire-bombed and the U.S. Information Agency offices in Cairo and Alexandria were damaged by fire started by phosphorous incendiary devices, as was a British-owned theater. Source: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1457.htm

On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. This USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died. Source: http://www.gtr5.com/

Israel Spies in the US

Jonathon Pollard ring a bell? If not, check out this somewhat comprehensive listing: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/motherofallscandals.html

--------------------------

Mind you, this was just from one minute Google search. If I actually cared to do the research I'm sure I'd find a lot more.

Hope that helps.

Here is the real Nakaba Hamas Web site: video of Hamas suicide terrorist, February 2006 – April 2007:
"My message to the loathed Jews is that there is no god but Allah, we will chase you everywhere! We are a nation that drinks blood, and we know that there is no blood better than the blood of Jews. We will not leave you alone until we have quenched our thirst with your blood, and our children's thirst with your blood. We will not leave until you leave the Muslim countries."

"In the name of Allah, we will destroy you, blow you up, take revenge against you, purify the land of you, pigs that have defiled our country... This operation is revenge against the sons of monkeys and pigs.

Here is the real NAKABA Hamas TV dramatization of woman suicide terrorist Reem Riyashi’s four-year-old daughter vowing to be a suicide terrorist like her mother - March 21, 2007 and repeatedly through May 2007.

[Background: Reem Riyashi killed four Israelis and wounded seven in 2004.] The following is the Hamas TV dramatization of the song in which Duha, Reem's daughter, sings to her mother:

[Daughter sees mother preparing explosives sticks]
"Mommy, what are you carrying
in your arms instead of me?
[Mother turns to hide bomb]
A toy or a present for me?...
Mommy Reem!
Why did you put on your veil?
Are you going out, Mommy?...
Come back quickly, Mommy
I can't sleep without you,...
[Daughter sees mother's picture and news story about bombing on PA TV]
My mother, my mother,...
Instead of me you carried a bomb in your hands.
Only now, I know what was more precious than us...

[Images of her mother's grave and the graves of other terrorists,
including Aayat Al-Akhras, 17-year-old female suicide terrorist]
Send greetings to our Messenger [Muhammad] and tell him:
'Duha loves you.'
My love will not be [merely] words.
I am following Mommy in her steps.

Well, we all know about the Muslim leaders who talk a good patriotic game and get into the White House, including those who have gone from the White House to the Big House like Abdurahman Alamoudi, who publicly condemned terrorism and privately complained to Muslim audiences that bin Laden hadn't killed enough Americans; and Ali al-Timimi, the supposedly peace-loving and respected religious leader who's now on trial here for inciting anti-American violence and praising the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster as a "good omen" for Islam. But it's much more than that. It's about Islamic spying and espionage, something Washington has yet to come to grips with in this war.

So spies and agents for the terrorist enemy have actually penetrated our government?

Absolutely. In fact, they've infiltrated every security agency from the FBI to the Pentagon to the prison system, which is the top recruiting ground for al-Qaida right now, and they've also worked their way into the public school system. But let's just take the FBI. Remember how after 9/11 we hired Arab and Muslim translators to clear the huge backlog of Al-Qaida chatter?

Yeah, the same backlog where clues to the next planned attack may be buried.

Right. Well some of them have sold us out. Case agents I talked to say they can't trust these guys. They say some have tipped off targets of terror investigations, while others are holding back key information from case agents they're working with—who are completely at their mercy because they don't speak Arabic and these other tongues. The Muslim translators are claiming the information is "NOT PERTINENT" to their investigations when in fact it is. They've also had a problem with laptops with classified al-Qaida information disappearing from that translation unit at FBI's Washington field office. It's a mess there, a veritable Muslim "mole house," as one bureau source put it. Some devout Muslims in the unit have gotten so cocky they're actually demanding separate potties from the "infidel" agents so they won't get dirty sitting on the same toilets. Others go around the language squad saying America had 9/11 coming to it because of our pro-Israel policies. It's outrageous, it's flat-out betrayal, and these are the people who are supposed to be protecting us from another 9/11.

Make no mistake: Infiltration exposes terrorists and the people who support terrorists, who just happen to be in the Muslim community. Not the Italian community. Not the Sikh community. The Muslim community. No one wants to heap scorn on Muslims, but the unpleasant truth is they gave far more aid and comfort to the hijackers than Washington let on. They got help in seven mosques coast to coast, and some Muslims helped them even though they knew what they were up to. Some of the hijackers were welcomed and wined and dined as if they were celebrities. If we keep sweeping these unpleasant truths under the politically correct carpet, we're just inviting another 9/11. We have to penetrate the terror support network that just happens to be operating within the Muslim community, and permanently dismantle it.

No 60 year old story.The spies and people who would killllllllllllllllllllllllllllll us now.

Do these things RING A BELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL about spies who want to killlllllllllllllllll.

Do these things ring a belllllllllllllll about people who want to killl us.

Ya, but Blackjack, I can quote you that ridiculous "Elders of Zion" (or whatever) garbage, or go over some of the 9/11+Mossad conspiracy theories -- equally prevalent on the internet as what you put above -- and try to convince you that Jews are going to take over the world and trying to kill us, but wouldn't you just laugh at me?

Let's be real, there are no true Jews or Muslims trying to harm anyone. It's politics in the name of religion. What you find on the internet is fearmongering and irrational twists of what is seemingly fact. For everything you read, like "Iran accuses Israel of sabotage" or "Israel accuses Palestinians of terrorism", you must always ask, "Is the pot calling the kettle black?" Then do your research -- for sure you will find that more often than not, the accusations are highly hypocritical :)

Ya, but Blackjack, I can quote you that ridiculous "Elders of Zion" (or whatever) garbage, or go over some of the 9/11+Mossad conspiracy theories -- equally prevalent on the internet as what you put above -- and try to convince you that Jews are going to take over the world and trying to kill us, but wouldn't you just laugh at me?

Whats the matter NK, you can dish, but you cant take it?

Let's be real, there are no true Jews or Muslims trying to harm anyone.

You are right about one part and that is the jewish one.

"Is the pot calling the kettle black?" Then do your research -- for sure you will find that more often than not, the accusations are highly hypocritical :)

YOU HYPOCRITE

Israel's Terrorist Acts (Indirectly or Directly Against the US):

May 1948: The U.S. appointed Count Folke Bernadotte of Sweden to mediate between the Arabs and the Israelis. In his first progress report (of Sept. 16, 1948) he recommended that the U.N. should affirm "the right of the Arab refugees to return to their homes in Jewish controlled territory at the earliest possible date." The Israelis responded in their own quiet way. The following day Bernadotte was murdered in Jerusalem. [Fine, she was Swedish, but the US had a vested interest in her appointment.]

July 1954: Israeli intelligence planted "a ring of spies (Moles)" in Cairo, its task was to begin sabotage operations against selected Egyptian, British and American targets...On July 14, the Alexandria post office was fire-bombed and the U.S. Information Agency offices in Cairo and Alexandria were damaged by fire started by phosphorous incendiary devices, as was a British-owned theater. Source: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1457.htm

On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. This USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died. Source: http://www.gtr5.com/

Israel Spies in the US

Jonathon Pollard ring a bell? If not, check out this somewhat comprehensive listing: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/motherofallscandals.html

--------------------------

Mind you, this was just from one minute Google search. If I actually cared to do the research I'm sure I'd find a lot more.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the info nk, hardly compelling stuff, but useful to know. I think it's also pretty much accepted that allies spy on each other all the time. Gawd knows the french, brits and yanks do.
All something of a side issue of course.

Blackjack still seems to be missing the point that this article is about hizbollah though, not hamas or arabs or muslims in general. But if he wants to spout paranoid nonsense then that's his prerogative.

Oh and on the subject of italian terrorism have you not even heard of the red brigades? Plus there has been sikh terrorism in Pakistan, all acts of 'terror' tend to at the very least have a context.

If you stop conflating anti western terror like 9/11 or the madrid bombs, with anti occupation terror like hamas, with just plain old liberation struggle like hizbollah, then it may help calm down you're Commies Under The Bed paranoia.

As for the point of the original article about recruiting of children there's a debate going on about this in the UK at the moment plus we have the army cadets, and I know there are marine recruitment offices in US high schools, so not much cause for the moral high ground is there.

Dear nk+

You're a fool because your arguments are based on thin inaccuracies:

" In 1948, Iran became the 2nd country to recognize Israel's state. They thank Iran by spreading lies and propaganda.."
In 1948 Iran was Persia and was ruled by a secular pro-Western Monarch not the the hardline Islamic regime it is ruled by today. So Israel's relation to Persia is not the same as Israel's relation to Iran.

" Hezbollah is a legitimate resistance movement to an occupation over land that once was their's. "
What land are you referring to ? Lebanon. Israel withdrew from Lebanon May 2000. Sheba farms ? That's Syrian not Lebanese.
I though Hezbollah was a Lebanese organization so why are they not satisfied with Israel's departure from Lebanon ?
Your rhetoric catches you in a lie. The reality is: the Arab problem is not over specific territories but over the existence of Israel, at all.

" (re. 1967 war) The Israeli army outnumbered and out gunned the Arabs in many ways. "
In what ways did Israel's population outnumber the combined populations of Egypt, Jordan and Syria ? by brain cell count ?
That they outgunned them is clear by the result of the war.

" To say that the 1967 war showed the world that Israel's army was all-powerful is ridiculous when you look at it in contrast to the recent war they stalemated on (lost) against Hezbollah. " The two wars are decades apart in technology and politics so drawing them into comparison is rhetorical not logical. Despite Nasrallah's claims to a 'a divine victory' in the 2006 war it's widely held by most (non Arab) commentators that that Hezbollah took a harsh beating from Israel in the 2006 war. Israel clearly lost the PR war but in reality won the Material war.

" As for Hitler youth -- the IDF also recruits at a fairly young age and the ideology of the soldier/citizen and Jews being "God's Chosen People" is hammered into them at a young age. Maybe they don't have to join the army until they're in their late teens, but the process starts way earlier. "

Comparing a 12 year old Hitler youth or a 10 year old Hezbollah shahid to an 18 year old Israeli high school graduate is clearly not the same thing.
The difference is that Israel lets it's kids finish school and become literate before ordering them to defend their homeland. Hezbollah (and Hamas) conscripting kids who haven't finished even primary school into military training is taking advantage of uneducated children.
But where would Islamic terrorism be without taking advantage of the uneducated...

Good luck to you, but if you want to argue make sure your arguments are rational rather than delusional.

"In 1948 Iran was Persia and was ruled by a secular pro-Western Monarch "
Pahlavi got kicked out because of the acts of the zionist israelis that had no respect to treaties,they would not go back to pre-67,and stop building settlements,and that gave the Islamists a great backing by the media!

"Israel withdrew from Lebanon May 2000. Sheba farms ? That's Syrian not Lebanese. "
No go check before you call someone a fool and you are wrong!Shebaa Farms is an occupied Lebaneese land!Stolen land!

"why are they not satisfied with Israel's departure from Lebanon ?"
They have not given up the Shebaa Farms, and till then they have the right to resist per the UN.Till they get their stolen land.

"In what ways did Israel's population outnumber the combined populations of Egypt, Jordan and Syria ? by brain cell count ?"
Go check the percentage of the Israeli population that was in the army,vs any arab country,or all of them combined at the time!Or just the number of total troops.

"The two wars are decades apart in technology and politics "
Are you saying you don't brag about the nukes Israel has,or the high tech weaponary that exceeds the american built?Or that you have accepted the defeat and don't look at it as a big deal?

"Israel clearly lost the PR war but in reality won the Material war."
Did you get back the 3 soldiers you went to war for?Do you remember the pic's of Israeli soldiers crying?Their statements?You were hopless!And ran out like losers,and kept dropping bombs on civilians and roads!Which they will rebuild!

"The difference is that Israel lets it's kids finish school "
Aren't you lucky schools don't get shut down due to air strikes from your neighbor?

"But where would Islamic terrorism be without taking advantage of the uneducated..."
Mixing HizbAllAh with Hammas,and calling them terrorists is flat out stupid,they are both elected parties,and both are fighting to capture their occupied land,according to the UN that is their right!Till you give them back the land you took by force.
Egypt made a deal with Russia to build a nuclear reactor!Saudi is very close,and Iran is closer.Hurry up and make a fair deal that makes everyone happy,give them the land you stole,so we can all focus on living.

Dear Sherif

re. Iran/Persia
Pahlavi being overthrown by Khomeini had internal reasons and justifications but to claim it was because of the Zionists is nonsense but it fits a delusional Arab focus on Israel, as the cause of all their strife so I don't begrudge you this cherished fantasy.

re, Shebaa farms
According to the UN Israel has fully withdrawn from Lebanon and according to the UN the Shebaa Farms are Syrian. Historically it's overwhelming that they were Syrian. When Israel agreed to withdraw from Lebanon, Syrian and Lebanese officials promoted the fiction that it was part of Lebanon as a reason for Hizbullah to continue it's military activities - to claim they still had to defend Lebanon. Which, coincidentally of course, did not hurt Syria's control of Lebanon at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebaa_Farms

re. Army sizes
The Israeli army had sixty thousand soldiers and three hundred fifty aircraft.
Egypt's had 190,000 soldiers and 550 aircraft.
Syria had sixty thousand soldiers and one hundred aircraft.
Jordan had 35,000 soldiers and twelve aircraft according to the Associated Press.
I assume you can count ?
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/History/MidEast/03/herndon/herndon.htm

re. the time and technology differences between 1967 war and 2006 war.
I don't get your point...these two wars were decades apart fought with different weapons and for different political reasons. You may see them as continuous but that's because your sense of indoctrination overcomes your grip on reality.

re. the 2006 Lebanon War
It's true Israel did not get back her soldiers but it's also true that Hizbullah lost around 500 soldiers and the leader of this 'divine victory', Nasrallah was so victorious he has been in hiding since then. That's how successful it was for him. Also, a significant portion of the Lebanese population blamed Hizbullah for starting the war and bringing destruction onto Lebanon. As for the pictures of crying soldiers, it does not matter to Israel because, unlike the Arabs, we don't fight wars based on pictures and propaganda. We aim to win the real war whilst Arabs seem unable to defeat us so they take second best - the imaginary war.

re. education in Lebanon vs. Israel
You blame Israel for Lebanese children not having schools ? That's interesting because Israel has had hostile neighbors and fought wars every decade since it's Independence and still managed to produce the most literate population in the Middle East, according to the UN, and the third highest (after the US and Holland) percent of the population with university degrees (20%).
Did it occur to you that if Arab societies had chosen for the past 60 years to educate themselves rather than put their energy and resources towards destroying Israel, at the expense of their social and economic development, they may have achieved a more educated population by this point ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

re. the impending threat of nuclear Arab states and terrorist designation
Egypt and Saudi Arabia are more afraid of Iran than they are of Israel because they know Israel is not belligerent but they, like Israel, are not so sure about Iran. I call Hizbullah a terrorist organization because in addition to their pioneering invention of the suicide bombing of civilians and numerous attacks they are regarded as terrorists by the US, Canada, Israel, Holland, the UK and Australia.
http://beirutspring.com/blog/2008/02/15/the-most-hideous-of-them-all/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#cite_note-28

re. a peaceful solution'
Ask yourself:
What does Israel want out of the deal and what does Hizbullah (and other militant Arabs) want out of the deal ?
Israel says it wants peace and is willing to sacrifice land for it as it did and tried to do in Sinai, Lebanon and Gaza (Land, after all, is what the Arabs say they want). What happened in return ?
Hizbullah used the land vacated by Israel to launch rockets into Israel and Hamas used and uses Gaza as a launching pad for rockets into Israel. In return, Israel has to respond by killing the terrorists that fire the rockets and in the process civilians also get killed. These were both territories vacated by Israel as a gesture for peace but it was not ' good enough' so ask yourself, honestly, do Arabs peace or do they just simply want Israel to not exist ?

Sherif and nk+, your arguments are passionate but so devoid of reality or reason that it's hard ti guess if you are more dishonest or more stupid.

Avi:

Most of your points are rational except for the designation of Hizballah as a terrorist organization, and your vitriol towards Arabs in general.

I have a huge problem with the way the west classifies organizations as terrorists. The most glaringly obvious reason is because it eliminates nuance with an overgeneralizing label that forces significant punishment and stigma onto whoever is called a terrorist organization.

The list and the label do not care that vast amounts of people living in southern Lebanon depend on reconstruction done by Hezballah (and paid for by Iran), schools run by Hezballah, food delivered by Hezballah, political representation by Hezballah, and even emergency medical transport by Hezballah. The list doesn't care that thousands of people view Hezballah as liberators, not terrorists, and will rush to the defense of their heros in the face of percieved Western aggression.

The situation in Gaza between the Palestinians and Hamas is the same, but again, most people don't think beyond the word terrorist, and they immediately dismiss the organization as useless, barbaric, and deserving of destruction, when perhaps the situation can be salvaged, much like the situation in Northern Ireland with the IRA.

Yes, Hamas and Hezballah have used, and still use, terrorism as their primary weapon of choice, but terrorism is just that -- a weapon -- and in this context, "the war on terror" makes about as much sense as "the war on black powder muskets".

I'm sorry, but the obstinate tunnel vision approach of killing those that launch the rockets while hoping that eventually you'll kill enough, just doesn't work. All it does is lend credence to the organization's greatest weapon, recruitment and propoganda.

So, Avi, you sound like an intelligent guy, but you seem just as closed minded and oblivious to reality as you've claimed Sherif and nk+ to be.

First of all, any logical thinking person who is up to date on current events knows, I mean KNOWS that Israel will take the proverbial bullet for us. If Israel wasn't there as, at the very least, a buffer between Islamic fanaticism and the West, the target would be Europe and then America.
Crazed Hizbellah fighters, need to fight, need to have an enemy to take the attention away from their own miserable existance. If it weren't the Zionist enemy, it would be the Liberal enemy, or the Socialist enemy. In effect, it has nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish state. It's more about Israel as a democratic state, or about as democratic one could hope for in a region that believes that sending their sons and daughters with a bomb strapped to their backs to blow up more innocent victims is a one way to martyrdom.
It's like to reason with a toddler,, you can't.
Israel has absorbed blacks, whites, Jews, Gentiles, Arabs, Asians and has created a melting pot of democracy in a region where the word didn't exist in the common vernacular.
It's nice that Hizbellah has created social welfare agencies,but it comes with an agenda. And where do they get the money to do all this? Isn't in the interest of the Saudi's to keep the hotbed of activity away from their lands so they can enjoy their lifestyle?
If Hizbellah would put down their guns and focus solely on rebuilding a democratic Lebanon ( not the Islamic Republic of Lebanon) the world would be a nicer place. But again, when the culture is to train children to blow themselves up there is absolutely no way we comprehend let alone begin to open dialogue.

Nathan

Terrorism is defined as 'Premeditated acts of murder deliberately directed against civilians'.

The fact that Hizbullah provide social services, not uncommonly as support for terror activities, does not remove the fact that they are terrorists.
They (and Hamas) have and continue to use premeditated attacks on civilians as their weapon of choice. And, they go to great lengths to legitimate it as acceptable and promote it to their own as admirable. If your retort is that civilians die in Israeli raids then you are ignoring the fact that that Israel does not intend nor attempt to legitimate the killings. It apologizes, as opposed to celebrates.

Your analogy with the IRA is incorrect because the IRA wanted the English out of N.Ireland - they didn't want nor expect the English to vacate the British Isles or disappear from the face of the earth. Imagine if the IRA's objective has been for the English to leave the British Isles completely or they would kill them, all. That's a closer analogy for the ambitions of the Islamic extremists Israel faces.

The 'war on terror' terminology is American packaging, the war on terror started long before 9/11 for Israel.

As for the strategy of hunting down rocket squads in Gaza. I disagree with you that it doesn't work. It kills those responsible for the attacks with as little civilian casualty as possible. It's an imperfect system but what choice doe Israel have ? Let them keep firing ? Dismantle the state of Israel and vacate the middle east ? What answer can you provide that would be a better strategy than targeted killing ? Let the Israeli government know when you come up with it or maybe give Hamas a call and ask them to accept that the State of Israel has a right to exist and to please stop firing rockets at it.

Nathan, you sound like a guy who thinks he's intelligent but your opinions show that you are an apologist who can't tell cause from effect and who doesn't understand or doesn't want to understand the reality: Hizbullah and Hamas do not want a peaceful agreement with Israel they want the elimination of Israel. How can Israel compromise with groups whose unmistakable objective it is for them to die ? Peace will come when the Arab's accept Israel has a right to be there, until then they leave Israel no choice but to defend itself. Your purported open mindedness could be your lack of moral clarity.