Who Dies in Harry Potter? God

Tuned In's Jim Poniewozik points out that Frodo wasn't going to the Grey Havens, he was in fact leaving from the Grey Havens (heading for Valinor). Thereby taking me down _in my own house_. I'm gonna have to make some really erudite point about America's Got Talent on his blog now.

yeah, but you owned up to it, so that gets you extra points. you could show him up by figuring out what's going on in Lost before he does.

This makes Phillip Pullman's _His Dark Materials_ sound both prescient and, frankly, quite a lot bolder than Rowling's work. Not sure if you've read it, Lev, but if you haven't it'd be an interesting point of comparison, re: dealing with god, or lack of same-

Personally, I don't see what's really special about it being "love" instead of "god". Harry Potter's setting is no different than any rather narrowly-created novel or movie settings where the question of god simply doesn't come up as not being germane. This doesn't strike me as any kind of profundity. Perhaps the last book will address the matter (if Harry's love leads him to sacrifice himself for the greater good in the Deathly Hallows -- voila, Christ-figure!), but I'm dubious.

I've read Pullman, though it's been a few years. I remember feeling kind of amazed -- and also kinda annoyed -- by what a naked polemic it was against organized religion, esp in the third book. Not because I'm religious myself -- I'm not at all -- but it just felt kind of pushy and (ironically) preachy to me. I found Rowling's rejection of religion that much more powerful just because it's so quiet and unannounced. I mean, if you've got ghosts, and the afterlife, and you're working in a genre that's historically been informed by the religious convictions of its authors, to me it sort of begs the question?

re: sacrificing oneself for the greater good, my money's on Snape biting it. Redemption, that old chestnut.

This blog entry is deep.

Its just a book. When will the modern world stop living through fictional characters? Oh, I forgot.....Mr. Grossman has bills to pay also.

I say this with respect, get a grip. Lighten up. Harry Potter is just a fantasy story about magic, wizards, creatures, and the like. These stories have been around forever for entertainment, that's it, entertainment. The only difference now is the effects are better. Doesn't make it any more real, just more entertaining. I think too many people feel they were given the task to speak for God (any God). As if He is threatened by fantasy novels or angry that J. Rowling is making money! Whatever God, if any, you adhere to, I'm sure he could care less. These people disturbed by the books and movies don't have to read or watch them. It's very simple. Not your cup of tea, so be it. Read and watch something else.
I didn't get the feeling Rowling rejected religion, I just figured it didn't have a place in the story. As for the Afterlife, I just thought it was another realm. Nowhere in particular. Just another realm.

Mike, help me out here. Are you talking about the Bible? The Koran? The Little Red Book?

Whichever, I'm thinking the answer is "not anytime soon."

Kat, the idea that God "couldn't care less" is (either implied or infered) by Rowlings (revealed) works. That's not particularly profound (it dates back to the Deists, at least) but it is illuminating, as Lev rightly points out.

I wonder what Grossman would think of a BUDDHIST-based fantasy novel? :)

What's the point of this post? So this "fictional" (emphasis added) world does not feature a smidgen of any religious values...instead it focuses on loving your follow man and not giving in to evil.

Considering the negative effects of the culmination of so many religions in the modern world, I would say that's a much better message than any religion out there.

God doesn't die, because never existed in the first place.

God doesn't have to permeate and appear in every book that has ever been written. Not once did Tolkien use the word "God," even if he considered himself religious or observant.
In reading Rowling's books and seeing the movies, the themes of "love" and "faith" appear numerous times--both Christian themes. They are not Jewish themes or Muslim themes, per se. At least the latter two religions don't dwell on them. Judaism's main theme is "justice." And who knows what Islam's main theme is, besides "kill the infidels, and take over the world."
If Rowling is part of the Church of Scotland, that seems to me to be a Christian element, and Christianity seems to have been a part of Rowling's upbringing, which her experiences have helped her create the Potter books. Chill--there's plenty of Christianity in her books. She's just not obsessed with the term "God" like you are.

A world scrubbed clean of any religion you say? What a paradise that would be. The feelings that drive you to defend your religion in this silly way is the same feelings that drive people to blow themselves up to defend theirs. You're just not as foolish. Religion IS fiction. Spirituality is fine, but religion is just a fairy tale. Be wary of anybody or any group that claims to know what god wants, or claims to have exclusive knowledge of what his will for the world is. If there is a god he's laughing at the pope's funny hat.

Well, scrubbed of the intolerant, self-absorbed and genocidal Abrahamic god of the various Bible versions and the Koran would be real progress.

Keeping damaging and errant nonsense out of childrens' heads would be a useful step in creating true links between peoples as humans rather than trying to stitch together varied ignorances.

"In real life Rowling is said to be a member of the Church of Scotland, but on paper she has more in common with celebrity atheists Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens than she does with Tolkien and Lewis."

How do you know this? I mean, really, care to honor us with a source for this claim? My understanding is that she is a practicing Christian, but is a much more sophisticated apologist than C. S. Lewis ever was.

As for Rowling's fiction, the lack of God, or any mention of sprituality, religion, churches and so on is remarkable - the magical world is animistic, and lacks an overriding moral structure. And it is a clearly empty world with nothing but paltry human virtues (excellence, brotherhood, enlightened self-interest) for the protagonists to arm themselves with. The shallowness of the spiritual lives of the characters is so obvious (really, why not be evil in such an impoverished and tempting universe?) and so clearly shown in its poverty that a reader can treat the series as an extended essay seeking to prove the existence of God in our world.

We regularly see ordinary people achieve extraordinary things in our world, and most often when they have the benefit of faith, or grace, or whatever you want to call it. Harry Potter allows us to better recognize the magic around us. The point of the final book, I predict, is that Harry, whether he lives or dies, reaches greater power and understanding through some sort of greater step in consciousness reached through an appreciation for a non-anthrocentric virtue. In other words, the argument for God is yet to be made.

And finally, Harry is not the hero of the book - he is just a cipher for the reader. The hero is Snape. But that is the subject for another time.

In case many of you did not actually read the books... Harry, Hermione, Ron, etc. celebrate Christmas and Easter to begin with. Remember the elaborate descriptions of the 12 Christmas trees? So I don't see how you can refer to the novels as not having any mention of religion. Just because the main characters aren't preaching one religion over another doesn't mean they don't practice something. Oh and by the way... it's just fiction.

I was a little surprised at some of the negativity of the previous comments. So I'll say my piece and be nice about it. Aristotle used to talk about artists creations being physical creations of their metaphysical beliefs. With the rise of postmodernism that idea has been fairly well accepted. These are not "just fariy tales" or "meant for pure entertainment". They might be considered as such by the author herself, but it's irrelevant. Any artistic creation can reveal insights into the author's beliefs and values, so the same is true of Rowling's work. It is indeed interesting to note the total absence of a god figure in these books. In all other mainstream fantasy there is a God (or satan)-like character or figurehead that is present. The Dark Lord from the Tolkein's work, ditto in Robert Jordan's, the Creator and the Keeper in Terry Goodkind, The Most High God in Gene Wolf's The Wizard Knight series, etc. I haven't read Pullman, but it sounds like he's explicitly the other direction, anti-god. It is indeed telling that in our religion obsessed society we have embraced these books that really lack any notion or evidence of a diety.

Also, re: the comment made above about christian values. Rowling, as well as the rest of us in the Western World have been raised by, and grown up with with friends in a Christianity driven culture. That they show up is not surprising. What is surprising is that the most foundational aspect of chrisitian culture, that there is a higher power, is absent in these books. Food for thought I suppose. I'll ponder this at work today.

In reference to Kat's comment I do hope that the many millions of books, poems and paintings created hasn't just for been for the sake of entertainment - stories (among other things) should raise questions and gets us to think a little more. Excellent article and personally I agree with the comments made by Drew.

Please, please let nonbelievers be. Stories of god are for a church or a temple or Stonehenge... can't we just read something and not have the god patrol swooping in? Go to a place of worship.

Does anyone need a"retirement home"? Is that why one needs to believe?
No God, well high time there was none- too many odes to invisible friends up there.

Adding to Rebecca's point on the use of Christmas and Easter holidays in Potter series, there is the explicit idea of a soul, as one can note with the example of the Horcruxes.

That there is no explicit source of the hero's worth in terms of a higher power is meaningless in terms of defining Ms. Rowling's faith, or that of her characters.

By this equation, one must base the worth of Terry Pratchett's highly acclaimed and beloved 'Disc World' series on the basis of an absence of major deities (though there are a plethora of small gods, and of course priestly figures in the form of Dwarves and eastern monks)

Agree with Rees and ALlytude. That is one of my FAVORITE things about these books - that they portray positive values that are near-universal across religious/spiritual faiths, without actually preaching a particular faith. Plus, there is definitely a spirituality that comes across from these books, to me anyway, and I much prefer not to be beaten in the head with religious dogma in my fiction. Hogwarts is a school with kids from all walks of life living and learning together. Right and wrong, good versus evil, sacrifice, love, hate: these are not abstract concepts to the Hogwarts kids - these are things that they must face and deal with on a daily basis. The heroes must rely on love, sacrifice, and cooperation to overcome the incarnation of evil that faces them, because they know that they have a responsibility to do so. Christianity does NOT have the market on those values, and do not need to be paid unnecessary lip service in a fiction book. Rowling, as an author, embraces nonconformity and questioning of authority. She examines the human weaknesses and strengths that allow despotic leaders to thrive and inspires resistance to injustice and evil. She reinforces the power of the human spirit, of love, and of friendship/cooperation. If that somehow upsets Christians, then they have missed the point of their own religion and i have nothing more to say to them on the subject!

And which god should be present in Harry Potter exactly? The more marketable one perhaps?

If you see bad intentions in a fictional work the creator could easily claim good ones for different reasons. This tactic works both ways.

George Bush believes in God.
JK Rowling may possibly not believe in God.

still someone expends a very long blog entry dissecting the dangers of JK Rowling's writings, and the implied dangers of such writings (whoo - there may not be a god at all in her paper universe !)
heckuva job Grossman

I think some people are reading this piece as an attack on Rowling for being overly secular. Which isn't really what it says. And not that it really matters, but I am in fact an atheist, so being secular is A-OK #1 with me. Her non-godliness is one of the many things I personally like about JKR's work.

Not to go on and on, but when people buy 325 million books by somebody, there's an opportunity there to observe that behavior and figure out what it tells us about the culture we inhabit. And all the piece is really saying is that it's kinda interesting that so many millions of people, in what is still ostensibly a culture of intense religious belief, have embraced such an intensely non- or even anti-spiritual fantasy, and that said embrace represents a shift from JKR's major antecedents, ie Tolkien, Lewis, et al. In a lot of ways Rowling is telling a mythical story that's been told over and over again -- you can map HP onto Star Wars or Lord of the Rings w/ surprisingly little effort. But she's framing the story in a non-spiritual way that's very new. Not a bad thing or a good thing. Just something to think about.

i don't think the blog entry criticizes the absence of a God-figure in hp. it merely states an observation, and puts forward a hypothesis based on that observation.

most of the people who left comments aren't getting the point and is getting way too defensive about this whole religion thing.

i still think this is an interesting article.

You make an interesting point, maybe helping me to see why I kinda like the HP books but can't read Narnia (even though Narnia's purported Christian propaganda is really kind of ridiculous -- a resurrected lion? yeah right). As for Tolkien's "ardent Catholicism" it was not detectable by me in LOTR. But it is still refreshing to read a fantasy epic that strips away the de rigeur "fantasy religion" element so completely as Rowling does. Is she writing the first truly atheistic fantasy epic? Weird thought, dude.

I read the first book and thought it was okay, though not really great. The films are quite good, not only because they busted the budget on special effects, but because the actors are talented and the directors know what they're doing. As a Christian I do wonder about the ethical validity of using magic at all, but I don't think Rowling had that point in mind. She's not describing a metaphysic, she's telling a story.

As for Pullman -- no thanks. Why would I want warmed-over Nietzscheanism when I can just read Nietzsche for free on-line? And the scene where X (can't remember who) describes how they'd rather be assimilated into the universe than have an afterlife... oh, please. That's like deciding you really want to swim in icewater as your ship is going down in the North Atlantic. When I was an atheist I damn well wanted immortality and was depressed that there didn't seem to be any. I can't get into the mindset of somebody (Pullman, Asimov, you name it) who has decided that because the gift doesn't exist, they don't want it anyway. It was probably sour.

So here's the thought I had during work. Disclaimer: I have only read the first 3 books and seen the first 3 movies, so if I'm totally off base, don't flame me too much.

What about Harry himself as our diety of the storyline? He could easily represent a Jesus/savior figure within the story. He always comes in to save the day, he has survived attacks by and does battle with He Who Must Not Be Named, the evil superpowerful wizard who could easily be the satan figure of the book. Harry is more powerful than his friends and saves the day, though if in one of the later books Harry gets turned to stone and Hermione saves everyone's asses then this idea loses potency. But while the god influence seems to be much weaker than in many other works of popular fantasy, Harry as Savior and Slayer of Evil certainly parallels the other well known Jesus references in Tolkien and Lewis. Of course, if Harry dies and is NOT resurrected in this final book, then I think we could probably make the case with confidence that the HP series is the first popular fantasy series to be devoid of a God influence. Which, as Lev said, makes the fact that it is so popular a rather intruiging fact that likely says a good deal about our society and the things we value most. I for one am comforted by the thought that at their hearts, most people gravitate more towards the morality displayed in HP and not blind attachment to a particular faith.

Nothing exists out of physical reality (science is almost 100% sure of this). If it can't be measured with some kind of instrument, it probably doesn't exist. Who here believes in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy? Why don't you believe in them? Because there are no elves int he north pole and your parents were the Tooth Fairy.

The Torah (Old Testament for you Christians) isn't even an original piece of literature. It contains themes and stories straight from earlier works (Gilgamesh, Book of the Dead, etc). There are even books cited in the actual Torah (The Annals of King David for example). Why would the Torah have to cite an outside source? Didn't Moses write the first five books? Why would Yahweh need to cite outside sources? Was he writing a research paper for college?

You talk about god like it really exists. How are you so sure? Do you have his phone number? You seem to god's thoughts pretty well. You can feel Jesus in your heart and all, but that doesn't translate to the physical world. You might as well be praying to your glass of water next to your bed.

As far as ghosts and spirits or anything else SUPERNATURAL for that matter... Who here has seen a ghost or heaven or hell? It is always something you hear (unless you have some mental condition) from someone else. I would go see a psych if I saw a ghost. If someone claimed he were Jesus or the Messaiah, how many of you would follow him or her? I'm sure you would blow them off as crazy. People claim god or Jesus talks to them... do you really believe them? Bush Jr talks to Jesus, Jesus told him to invade Iraq. Too bad Jesus didn't give him a plan... haha.

ever try to measure neutrinos?
what if measuring god is just as difficult ;-)
Atheism is a new religion, it's ardent adherents are just as amusing as enthusiasts of other religions are.
Welcome to the table!

Rowling seems more Austen than Tolkien, more concerned with the clockwork of the heart than the battle of the soul. The books are secular and yet, can't we feel a bit of the holy in the touching of hands, feel the spirit in the wind through the carriage window, catch a reflection of God in the teacups? Perhaps Rowling's religious concerns can be found in the day-to-day minutia. Maybe it manifests itself in a more, dare I day, feminine way, and thus confuses and is dismissed.

Anyway, I always thought Hermione was Jewish, Harry (or the Dursleys at least) Church of England and Ron from a big Catholic family.

PS. In my house, we believe in fairies.

You say "And all the piece is really saying is that it's kinda interesting that so many millions of people, in what is still ostensibly a culture of intense religious belief..."

That makes an assumption which isn't really proven. Yes, many people profess to be a member of some organized religion, but when pressed, the majority admit that their observance is limited to those celebrations with coincide with holidays. This so-called culture of intense religious belief is one that the media is attempting to perpetrate, in an effort to explain certain political manifestations.

You also say "But she's framing the story in a non-spiritual way that's very new. " Mistaken assumption at the core - that it's non spiritual. Just because it's not cloaked in the paradigms of organized religion doesn't mean that it's not spiritual. This is not new, you know. Humanism, anyone?

It's also not new in fantasy literature, not by a long shot.

smeagol - Please! Referring to atheism as a religion is a terrible insult to us atheists! When you really think about it though, atheism is a religion like baldness is a hairstyle.

Tell me - do you believe in leprechans? No? I didn't think so. So does you disbelief in leprechans then qualify as a religion? Of course not. Neither does an atheist's disbelief in the existence of magic invisible creatures called "gods" qualify as a religion. Like your disbelief in leprechans, an atheist's disbelief in gods is just simple common sense - no more, no less.

Atheists really only believe in one less god than most people anyway, since most people don't believe in Zeus, Thor, Apollo, etc. And they disbelieve in your god for the same reason you disbelieve in the gods mentioned above - there is not a shred of credible evidence to support their existence.

I hope you have found this atheist amusing smeagol. Just please, please, don't call me religous again...! :)

Who Knows what "LOVE" is? Isn'that the most misunderstood and misused word in human language?
Any interpreation (of what LOVE means or contains) will only be relative (to the interpreter).
I comment on this as a reaction to the "notion" of "Love" as being simply "a human emotion" (associated with hormones).
I am of course nobody to declare the "correct" meaning of Love or God or Truth or anything else.

"Your 5 predecessors were by design based on a similar predication a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way your experience is far more specific, vis a vis, love." ~ The Architect

Uh-oh, Neo's function as 'the one' was facilitated by love too. More DVDs and black leather to fuel the lake of fire in hell (if there's room left after JKR's books).

God was a great business to be in and now here comes love to mess it all up. If love keeps up with this sort of interference it won't bode well for crime and war; I don't even want to think of what it'll do to racism.

This love thing is without doubt a WMD. Our only hope is a preemptive strike. I hope you're reading this Bush43.

Thanks for bringing the evil nature of unconditional acceptance (a.k.a. love) to our attention Lev.

'' Curiosity is not a sin...but we must exercise caution with our curiosity." Quote from Albus Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Book 4.

I would think Christians would appreciate the fact that JK Rowling did not create a wizard named Jesus that can raise the dead or turn bottled drinking water into fine wine.

Alas, John 13:34 does says "A new commandment I say unto you, that you love one another as I have loved you, so you must love one another." See, the Bible does talk about unconditional love. So I guess I gotta love you Bentcorner, Ronald, Lev, and the rest of the atheists/nonbelievers. (I, however, love Church because he cracks me up and not because of his name.)
Even if JK does have an inexplicit Christian theme, it is certainly not because of Christmas and Easter. The 12 Christmas trees and chocolate Easter eggs do not properly represent Christianity. If the theme is (Christian or not) unconditional love, Harry has to unconditionally love Voldemort or worse Severus in the end. But also having any Christian theme hasn’t stopped atheists from reading LOTR, has it?
And the post by Ronald who said that "nothing exists out of physical reality” and that all things that can be explained by science: Well what about unconditional love, which started this whole thing? And from my line of work, most of what can be “explained by science” is based on how well we can take statistics and cram it in a model. And then we say that’s how it’s suppose to work, if there were no extenuating circumstances such as . . . real life.
And to the people who say it's just a book, detached from reality, and we shouldn't read too much into it: 325 million copies were sold, so there must be a reason that we all connect even if we have nothing in common (unless you think Lev or Time mag is our connection). And that’s the best part of reading and discussing a book, but you need to have that one good book that can make us connect. Although, sometimes I wonder if this will become a classic 50 years from now, but that’s for another board.

Taking the works themselves without considering the details of the authors' religious beliefs, the comparative analysis in the July 23 Times "Briefing" seems questionable.

Rowling’s Harry Potter series, Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings, and Lewis’ Chronicles of Narnia all have a moral focus. They all explicitly reject the thesis that there is no absolute evil. They all equate evil with the egoistical lust after power for its own sake. They all infer that the supreme human virtue is love (not romantic love), which provides the incentive for promoting good and opposing evil.

The works of Tolkien and Rawling have the following further similarities: There is no deity and no obvious religious symbolism. The protagonists do not worship or pray. Magic can be interpreted as a kind of technology that is perfected by years of study and practice. Magic is neutral (can be used for good or evil) and limited in scope and power. Good is promoted and evil suppressed by mortals using wisdom and strenuous moral actions. Thus, wisdom and good works are the chief virtues after love.

It is Lewis that provides the contrast. In Narnia, there is a deity and Christian symbolism. There is bad magic that might be technology, and good magic that is a force controlled by the supreme deity. Good magic is unlimited in scope or power, but the deity may withhold or restrain its use. The triumph of good over evil is the prerogative of the deity. He (the deity is a “he”) may allow evil to thrive if mortals don’t meet his expectations or need a lesson. Thus, for Lewis, the chief virtues after love seem to be innocence and faith.

Which works provide the more useful metaphors for the world in which we find ourselves? Is the contrast itself a metaphor?

what is the difference between religion and mythology? muahahaha!

and as far as measuring neutrinos goes... look it up, they do it all the time. you really can't call atheism a religion. religion or mythology just fails to convince atheists. there needs to be evidence for me to believe in something. after i found out santa claus was not real, i asked myself, what else isn't real? the stories parents tell their kids in order for them to behave are not real. i have a friend who was raised in fear of being taken away wrapped up by the devil's tail if she did not pray at night. how traumatic! come now, let us pray in tongues (jesus camp reference).

This so-called 'article' is pure tripe. Time should be embarrassed to have someone like Mr. Grossman writing for it.

"And we congratulate ourselves on having tossed aside all that high-flown mystical stuff. But when the end comes -- and it's almost here -- where will that leave Harry?"

Really? Standing up on your flimsy fundamentalist soapbox to call 'heretic' at some fiction author is the best you can do? This makes the nutjobs in Iran who called for Salman Rushdie's head on a platter look comparatively reasonable.

Get a grip...and a life..and leave the critiquing to those who don't consider the New Testament to be definitive literature.

OK, first thing: I think JoeBob needs to read the article again and Lev's comment about 15 comments up. I think Lev's on the far end of the spectrum from "fundamentalist" and considering the N.T. to be "definitive literature." Not to mention we shouldn't bash others because they have opinions. That's opressive and mean.

Secondly, I'm surprised how his articles on movies and geek tshirts garner a handful a comments but if he mentions "religion" at all, we all can't argue enough with each other.

Lastly, I am interested in the point that he's making about the state of culture today and how H.P. reflects that. Just by reading the above comments you can see how much more "secular" we are than 50-100 years ago when Narnia and LOTR were written. Religion is feared and misunderstood left and right here.

But I don't believe that H.P. is completely devoid of spirituality. Love is still a very spiritual thing here, it affects the characters to their very cores (which is what a faith in something is supposed to do). The love Harry's mother put into him affects deeply whether he realizes it or not. It spurs him to choose the good, gives him courage, and inspires those around him give the very best of themselves (loyalty, courage, etc.).

The only spirituality H.P. is devoid of is a clearly defined sense of his "religion" or "beliefs." Again, not totally unexpected given the culture we live in. It's supposed to appeal to wide audience. Even LOTR and Narnia does that to an extent even with his "higher degree" of spirituality.

Lev, I don't think you needed to point out in a comment that you're an atheist :) Your point that the source of Harry's power, instead of God, is love shows us that you don't understand the Biblical concept of love. Don't take this as an insult - the vast majority of Christians today don't understand the Biblical concept of love. I just think that JKR has provided a great example: not only, as Dumbledore so kindly tell us, is Harry still (relatively) pure at heart, but despite all he has gone through, he still has the capacity to love his friends and care for people.

And on TOP of that, out of his love for his friends, he's willing to lay down his own life (that is, I'm predicting that he and Voldemort will both die) to defeat the evil which threatens not only the specific ones he loves, but also the Umbridges, Fudges, Scrimgeours, Percys, and all the others in the wizarding world who turned their backs on him. He's even going to die to save the Malfoys, the Goyles, the Crabbes, and the rest of the Death Eaters from the fate that they so eagerly walk towards! Oh, if there were a God willing to love us like that! Check out Hosea, and it gives a great image of the depths of God's love for us.

While I know that one of the main "themes" of Christianity is love I don't think that Harry Potter is a spiritual book. And you know what there is nothing wrong with that. As far as Harry playing a Jesus part, i can see simialrities but i don't think J.K. intended on him being Jesus ( inless she makes him die and is ressurected in the last book). It doesn't surprize me that she left the book religion free. Thats a part of the society we are now living in. Just because they have Christmas trees and celebrated Easter doesn't imply that there is a religous theme. Many (infact most) people celebrate those two holidays but don't consider themselves Christians. I didn't even think twice about the books having/needing a religion in it, after all it's a fictional childrens book.

The difference between christians and Harry Potter fans is that Potter fans enjoy reading fantasy and fairy tales because they're creative. Christians devote their lives to one.

I've always hesitated to call followers of christianity and judaism stupid, but this load of crap compels me to be honest.

You're frigging idiots.

Harry Potter is fiction that children enjoy because it's entertaining and original. Unlike idiots who believe that God created the world in seven days, Noah crammed two of every animal in the world onto a boat, and distributed them to their respective continents, etc.

In the words of Larry Norman, "The Beatles said all you need is love - and then they broke up."

i realise that this post is old news and no one might even read this comment but i think jk did not put religion expressedly in harry potter so as to make it accessible to all.It has been my belief for quite a while that the success of Harry Potter over other fantasy books while it has somthing to do with that huge list of neverending mysteries also can be attributed to the fact that Harry Potter didnt shove any religious or controversial ideals on anyone.It made its point about morals and values in a non religious way so no one felt affronted.I also feel it is mis representative of the books to say and I quote "a writer who dreams of a secular, bureaucratized, all too human sorcery, where psychology and technology have superseded the sacred."I would venture to say that the sacred rather than being superseded in this book was altogether and quite rightly avoided.At no point in the series does Rowling secularism any more than she pushes any other set of values.

So God isn't mentioned in a book largely centered around a school, huh?

True separation of church and state would have to pop up in a fiction book, I suppoes.

Editor:

I used to think the Faust story was pure legend, the invention of imaginative minds like the Brothers Grimm. But I was wrong.

J.K. Rowling has had more than the traditional seven years of good luck, fame and fortune, but she will eventually have to keep her part of the bargain.

Only mugs would waste their time & money on this junk. There are far better books to read and films to go and see.

Money - $34.99 list price. One time.

Seems the church is asking for it every week.

They're both in the business of making it - maybe the Christains are just a bit jealous

This post is for TJ:

FYI, I'm Christian & yet, I enjoy the HP novels & movies, thank you!!

I realize you must be annoyed at the various Christian groups attacking this clever series, but, for you to make an out & out attack on what I believe is nothing more than arrogant & obnoxious!!!;-0

Get real!!!!

The phrase "Thank God" is used on page 74 of The Deathly Hallows, and in Chapter 17 page 325 there is a direct quote from the New Testament (unattributed) - "Where your treasure is there will your heart be also."
-Luke 12:34
Matthew 6:21
There are also several mentions of Christmas. I'm only halfway through the book.

God is as real as Potter. So what's the big deal if one does not believe in the other?

That being said, the Potter books do seem to be a Christian allegory, with Bibilical quotes, messages of love and self-sacrifice...and Harry's ressurection scene.

I've read all seven books and I must laugh. Jo Rowling (a member of the Church of Scotland) herself was quoted to have said "I believe in God, not magic." Early on she felt that if readers knew of her Christian beliefs, they would be able to "guess what is coming in the books." (http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=fantasia_the_gospel_according_to_cs_lewis)
I could see the clues in her writing. Such as when Dumbledore reflects on how pitiable it is that the evil Voldemort thinks that there is no worse thing than death. Usually that's is what an atheist may think.

Are you kidding me? As far as I can see, Harry Potter has opened a world of imagination and fantasy for all ages. Being at the young age I am, I love these books with all my heart. One must stop and wonder what a genius J.K.R is. It saddens me though, that someone is criticizing this book..because it lacks god?! god died? I'm sorry but there has been no god/s to begin with. God is fictional.

Eggs on your face, Grossman! Harry pulled an Aslan and Surprise! HP is a christian allegory. Sorry all you Christian Right people who were looking forward to a book 7 book burning. Saying HP promotes worshiping witches is like saying Narnia Chronicles promote lion worship

It's so obviously, Rowling isn't Harry Potter, and Harry Potter isn't Rowling... Perhaps.

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sto andando dire ai miei amici circa questo luogo - è solo perfetto!

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sto andando dire ai miei amici circa questo luogo - è solo perfetto!

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