Re: Nevada Health Care Forum--Tumulty's Take

Posted by James, Los Angeles
March 24, 2007

Please pass this on to your colleagues in the press.

You are a bunch of lazy, arrogant, privileged schmucks. Pretty soon, your employers are going to eliminate your cadillac health plans along with your pensions. I expect that only then, when it affects your myopic privileged life, will you care to write about health care.

Please adjust accordingly.

XOXOXO.
The people who buy your defective product.

Posted by linda
March 24, 2007

Let's look at the presentations Hil has already struck out, Obama forgot his bat, Edwards got a hit, Richardson wants to talk about 'old' piece meal leave it to the states full of inequities with the announcer, and Kucinich by being the only one to address changing the system to help cut costs reversing provider friendly to user friendly scored. Dodd, I will have to watch CSPAN, it appears that he's still on the bench even though he's gotten some hits in his day. Gravel, trying to knock the mud out of his cleats, wants to add more 'paper' in the form of vouchers. Does that mean if I don't like the health care in my area (which really does suck), I can get a voucher to go to Mayo? Are his 'vouchers' equitable or only available to those who can afford the platinum card? As in NOLA-Katrina you get Charity Hospital unless you can get a voucher for Tulane?

Posted by linda
March 24, 2007

James just hit a home run. Oh, and may you not have a couple of autistic kids in a state that ignores their needs, including mental health and your platinum health insurance denies coverage after two years. You'll need more than a little tequilla and a message. Count your blessings.

Posted by trifecta
March 24, 2007

Echoing what James said, I find that attitude atrocious.

46 million Americans uninsured. Many more underinsured, our costs skyrocket every year. I bet CNN/MSNBC/FOX spent more time this year covering Anna Nicole than health care. It says something about our culture, and the media's view on their role these days.

The LA Times today had an article today about Blue Cross dumping pregnant women and sick patients off of health care coverage to make bigger profits today. So, at least some people are interested in the subject.

Now that the Gang of 500 doesn't consider themselves working class, mainly because they aren't anymore, stories about poverty, inflation eating paychecks away, and health care get short shrift. Thomas Friedman can't relate to people whose jobs are outsourced, so he doesn't.

I blogged about the Blue Cross story for anybody interested in reading about our health care nightmare.

http://newpairodimes.blogspot.com/2007/03/blue-cross-slammed-with-fine-for.html

Posted by infoshaman
March 24, 2007

Jay, thanks for sticking it out and reporting on an issue that affects every American. To your colleagues: James is right on. Get a job at a Wal-Mart and find out what the future holds for you.

Posted by Jake Gittes
March 24, 2007

There is just no way to parody the Washington press corps. They are exactly as shallow, stupid, and irresponsible as we depict them.

It's like President Bush...."IT'S HARD doing actual research and analysis on the issues that matter to Americans."

Honest to God, how in the world did we ever get stuck with this press corps? And for Karen to so blithely disclose that horrific little "joke" shows just how far gone she is....it is all about the horserace, and Clinton jokes, and Hillary vs. Obama.

THESE THINGS MATTER! How did you people ever get through college? Did you have People magazine hidden inside your Journalism textbook? Tell your friends to wake up! They suck at their profession, and they should be ashamed for sleepwalking through their lives.

Posted by Jim
March 24, 2007

The Washington Post did a great article a while back on the minimum wage (I know--Donnie Graham must've been off marlin fishing or playing golf with Tom DeLay when somebody slipped it in). I can't find it now, but the relevant point to this discussion is that virtually every minimum wage worker featured had a) no health coverage b) some serious medical condition (theirs or a family member's) which prevented them from getting ahead.

The young man who was featured in the article was working two minimum wage jobs to support his parents; his mother couldn't work because she had to stay home and take care of his bedridden father, who had lost his foot to diabetes. In a double wide with a leaky roof and a mold problem.

So thanks Karen, for channeling your innerwonk (you are all by yourself the class of this blog) and please, for me, tell your friend who sent that text message that I most sincerely hope and expect that s/he should rot in hell.

Posted by John
March 24, 2007

Dear Press

I don't want to die because I can't afford health care.

Would be nice if someone paid attention.

Love

America

Posted by James, Los Angeles
March 24, 2007

Karen, ya done good.

I don't think it is necessary for any candidate to have a complete health care proposal all neatly packaged and ready to roll at this stage. American health care is very, very complex. It is going to take a herculean effort by all the stakeholders, and they all need to participate. People who think that we are going to throw out the whole health care system and start new are being unrealistic. We need to include all the stakeholders at the table if this is going to work.

It is time to get real about what we can do. Many states have already started by providing near-universal health insurance for children. My state, California, is one of them. Cali is in the process of collecting data that demonstrates the cost effectiveness of universal coverage for children. Including adults in the plan is very problematic politically, with Republicans throwing up every barrier possible. But the major corporations are coming around, and that is a significant step. We have very near universal health care for retirees, and working on the children. It's taken a long time.

So if the candidates don't have a complete plan as yet, fine. It is a huge step to be able to talk about it without the right wing going into their freaking-out spasms against anything that might benefit ordinary Americans. But they are stakeholders as well. No one can predict what the final product will look like, but let us work towards making it as successful as MediCare. It's going to be work. Hard work. Hard, hard work.

ps. Your colleagues are woefully and deliberately uninformed. The privileged powdered ones care about nothing unless it affects or amuses them. Just wait until your employers cut your health care plan, or until some of you or your families suffer catastrophic illness and you lose your health insurance and your pension. You'll get interested in the issue really quick.

Posted by Brad DeLong
March 24, 2007

Perhaps Ms. Tumulty could explain what she is doing moderating and writing about this Nevada forum, because she really makes it sound as though she would rather have had a root canal.

Would it be asking too much to have *Time* replace Tumulty with somebody who actually likes learning about candidates' thoughts and plans on health care? Would that be so hard?

Posted by Disappointed
March 24, 2007

Sad, sad, sad that the press corps through which most voters will receive its news of the presidential campaign does not in fact actually care about an issue so important to so many voters. Perhaps not nearly as fascinating to them as whether Rudy Guiliani married his cousin or Hillary joking about her husband; but I suppose it's a little easier to give in to such callousness when you know your job and its benefits are safe and sound.

So, here's a pitch that ought to appeal to someone's editor somewhere. Nothing the media likes more than a little state-of-the race navel-gazing, right? Let's turn that to the campaign reporters' evident disdain for actually covering issues. Might as well be honest with the newspaper-buying, TV-news-watching public about what you're all really after; instead of just doing it in snarkily ironic blackberry messages just to each other.

Posted by Xeno
March 24, 2007

Act smug and arrogant while you still can, M$M lightweights. With all the cost-cutting your corporate overlords have been doing, it's a good bet that a lot of you will be hitting the bricks before long. Those who manage to hang on can look forward to seeing your benefits and pensions scaled back drastically, or eliminated altogether. Once you have to decide whether you want to take a sick child to the emergency room and run up a bill you can't pay, decide to go without medicine you need, or can't have diagnostic tests (mamograms, blood tests, PAP smears, etc) because you can't afford them, you'll be eager to talk about healthcare.

Posted by addie loggins
March 24, 2007

Dear Karen,

I assumed your colleague in the press room was just having a little fun with you as to prepared to go on stage. I thought her note was funny.

But some people don't have a sense of humor when it comes to things they really care about.

Please feel free not to adjust at all.

XOXOXO,

addie

Posted by Jim
March 24, 2007

**But some people don't have a sense of humor when it comes to things they really care about.**

Right. Cause that comment in no way shape or form reflects on the political media's coverage of this issue and politics in general.

Posted by Enceladus
March 24, 2007

I can understand it when my late adolescent college students don't want to study difficult works of literature, theory, and history.

It's hard intellectual labor to wrestle with such things, and they have every right to be distracted by more pressing issues--like scoring with one another.

But when I hear this that middle- and old-aged high-profile journalists are whining about having to do the job for which they all signed up, and for which they're more than amply compensated, words fail me, and I'm this close to tossing my CRT out the window.

But James already said all there is to say right now about how this anecdote makes me feel.

Beyond disgraceful. Switch to entertainment news, you pathetic jerks.

Posted by rmrd0000
March 24, 2007

I remember a panel of journalists on cable laughing about the fact that they didn't know anything about economics despite having to report on these matters.
This was prior to the first term of Bill Clinton.
Just as you have check sources on your own when purchasing a car, you have check your own facts to put a news strory into context.
This is the modern news media.

Posted by Jake Gittes
March 24, 2007

This is the frame the media is going to create for these Democratic debates, and forums. Mind you, the GOP candidates were invited and declined to appear. They don't give a rat's @ss about health care for Americans who go without.

The frame is: Oh, these Democrats and their pet issues are so BORING. I'd love to be writing about Anna Nicole Smith right now.

The Politico had the same "take"....

More Than You Wanted to Know About Health Care

By: Roger Simon

LAS VEGAS -- Because you did not want to spend your Saturday sitting in a room for three hours listening to Democratic presidential candidates tell you how they are going to provide universal health care for America, Politico did it for you.

Posted by Jim
March 24, 2007

Posted by rmrd0000
March 24, 2007
I remember a panel of journalists on cable laughing about the fact that they didn't know anything about economics despite having to report on these matters.
This was prior to the first term of Bill Clinton.

Remember Margaret Carlson "Picking on Gore is easy! and fun!"

Posted by John
March 25, 2007

I find this incredibly depressing and illuminating. If the press corps is bored already, what does this bode for their focus a year from now? I'd really hoped that after the last two presidential elections, the people in the bus would realize that dwelling on trivia can actually get people killed. Are we really destined to suffer through in-depth analysis of who the best beer buddy is yet again? Will every issue that actually matters to people be sneered at as boring wonk bait?

I'm afraid I think I already know the answer. The sea change to guys like Josh Marshall can't happen fast enough.

Posted by John
March 25, 2007

I don't know. I can certainly see the humor of the note: a group of professionals, goofing around together in the lull before the storm. The skies outside are sunny and the hotel is full of tourists waving gambling chips. I've been in that situation, and I don't really blame anybody for firing off a friendly "We'd rather be fishing" note in the last momemnts before they put on their game faces.

The real problem is that this attitude is the norm, rather than the exception. We regularly see boredom and contempt filter through the reporting of serious issues. We see news reports about what the fashionable congressperson is wearing. We hear about hairstyles, and golf games, and whatever absurd trivia catches the reporter's attention.

We get ceaseless meta-narrative, in which what is discussed is not the actual proposal or facts presented by a candidate, but *who* they are trying to win over, or how their opponents should react, or their demeanor when discussing it.

Is it too much to expect that serious issues deserve serious treatment? That when the game faces go on, reporters forget about the sunny skies, the golf games, and the wild parties going on all around them?

Everybody else out here in the real world does that all the time. We know when to have fun, and we know when to be serious. That's called doing our jobs.

When will the media start doing theirs?

Posted by James, Los Angeles
March 25, 2007

John asks, "When will the media start doing theirs?"

Short answers to sad questions. Never.

They are *never* going to do the job we think they should do. Like ancient Rome and eighteenth-century France descended into hedonistic debauchery, so have the Gang of 500 in present-day America. The Quinn cocktail crowd could not be more useless or destructive to our America.

We must support and nurture a new model of a free press. More democratic. More truthful. More informative. The Washington DC model has run its course and is no longer operative.

Posted by SlackerInc
March 25, 2007

"Sad, sad, sad that the press corps through which most voters will receive its news of the presidential campaign does not in fact actually care about an issue so important to so many voters."

Boy, I have to agree. I usually resist the reflexive anti-MSM attitude expressed by bloggers, but this really made them look like insipid dilettantes. Very lame, even as a "joke". I definitely just lost a lot of respect for the travelling press corps.

To quote Col. Tigh, one of my favourite characters on one of my favourite shows (BSG): "You know what I hate? Being wrong." Ugh.

-Alan

Posted by Elvis Elvisberg
March 25, 2007

Dudes, I think it's kind of a funny joke.

She's about to ask a bunch of health care questions, and moments beforehand, they're like, "No, instead improvise about something else that you're not prepared for!"

I understand being frustrated-- it is, after all, an inarguable fact that the media would prefer to cover barely existant tiffs between campaigns than anything substantive.

But this was still a pretty good joke.

Posted by SlackerInc
March 25, 2007

Elvis, I don't disagree that it was a "joke" in a narrow sense. But it sounds to me like something I might hear from a smartass high school student on the day of a test: "Hey, we all took a vote, and instead of taking the test today, we want to go outside." Sure, they don't actually have any serious expectation of this happening, but it still honestly reflects their state of mind.

And I expect better from reporters elite enough to be working this beat.

-Alan

Posted by Steve in Sacto
March 25, 2007

Oh the humanity!!

Press hacks on expense accounts in Vegas actually having to do three whole hours of "work." The Horror! The Humiliation!

Maybe some of these people ought to get a real job, in the real world, where there are real consequences for bad work product...

Maybe some of these pompous pampereds ought to have their health insurance taken away. Then we'll see if their interest in a health care forum improves...

These loathsome slackers worsen the health care situation -- they make everyone sick...

Who will hold them accountable...?

Posted by Steve in Sacto
March 25, 2007

All snark aside, Ezra Klein, who would probably appreciate reporting this event on expense account, has a fair take on all of this.
http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/2007/03/so_boring.html

In the end, our country would be better off if the press had distain and disinterest for the latest hairstyle or petty spat and was instead enthusiastic about reporting important issues in a thoughtful and accessible way.

Posted by trifecta
March 25, 2007

Heck, remember Margaret Carlsson dating Fred Thompson, then interviewing him later on Capital Gang. I think we need better disclosures this campaign season.

Posted by Observer
March 25, 2007

At many colleges these days (including my own, where I teach in the sciences), I find that Journalism is a degree that many students "settle" into when they can't handle things that are hard. Basically, they can't handle science or even business. Complex topics involving any kind of math frighten them, so they run to the liberal arts.

Now, you can get a very good liberal arts education with an emphasis well away from math and science, and many do, but I don't run across a lot of journalism majors who are into it for the classic "Woodward and Bernstein" truth-to-power vibe. They're in it because they can more easily perceive the path to employment than with English or History.

The journalistic role models these days are the millionaire pundit celebrities like Tim Russert or a network news anchor, not investigative reporters like, say, Sy Hersh. A lot of people look at the pundits like Joke Line and figure, "Hey, that looks easy," and for the most part, they're right. Small wonder that most of the journalists that populate the traditional media have a lazy, cynical attitude.

Part of this, in my opinion, is the fault of the corporate ownership of newspapers and networks. Part of it is the ongoing war on the media, begun in earnest by right-wingers and the "liberal media" crap Rush Limbaugh always pushes, which has made a large segment of the population lose respect for the media's role in the public debate.

Anyway, small wonder that you have a media populated by people who couldn't be more BORED with important public policy issues. Look at the role models. Look at the quality of students getting journalism degrees. I wish there were an easy fix. Shifting to a model with greater feedback, like blogs, is a good way to start if that feedback is taken seriously.

Posted by Captain
March 25, 2007

Lest we start another round of "humorless liberals who deserve to be marginalized", I believe everyone here recognizes the e-mail is facetious. However, when is a joke not a joke? When it is harshly, uncomfortably true. And that's the problem. Not that liberals are humorless, but we're pretty disillusioned with our press corps already for the reasons mentioned throughout these comments: Ana Nicole, Britney Spears and one extremist animal rights group (or person even) who think it's better to euthanize a polar bear cub than have it raised by humans gets far more attention than health care in this country. Hard to laugh at the playful e-mail when it reflects that sad reality.

Posted by ama
March 25, 2007

***The journalistic role models these days are the millionaire pundit celebrities like Tim Russert or a network news anchor, not investigative reporters like, say, Sy Hersh. A lot of people look at the pundits like Joke Line and figure, "Hey, that looks easy," and for the most part, they're right. Small wonder that most of the journalists that populate the traditional media have a lazy, cynical attitude.***

I read an essay within the last two years or so (by whom has slipped down my memory hole) that emphasized the above point. Additionally, as best I recall, the author indicated that journalists of long ago primarily came from working class families and understood the conditions of those families and the concept of hard work. Today's journalists aren't interested in covering police beats and such and in getting down in the ruts to learn about the lives of the lesser and the struggling. All want to get on the fast track to be a star.

Perhaps the author of the article was a bit fairer than I have been here in my attempt to recall, but this was the overall gist or what I took away from the critique. And certainly all journalists aren't like this, but this is the impression most of us get from the Gang of 500.

Posted by Elvis Elvisberg
March 25, 2007

Slackerinc, you may have the better of the argument here.

I do think it's very cool that a forthrightly frazzlred Karen Tumulty took the time to post here the night of the debate, btw.

Posted by Enceladus
March 25, 2007

Ezra Klein makes a good point about how journalists mistakenly assume that their audience is made up of easily bored idiots.

This perception has also been expressed repeatedly by journalists and pundits commenting on the Plame outing and the US attorneys scandal--"It's boring, wonkish, and complicated, so the general public doesn't care about it."

But of course, none of the reporters who make these assumptions cite any actual audience research that would back up these speculations.

Mass communication scholars call this the third-person effect, which roughly goes like this: "It's not you or I who react to a given media message in a certain way, it's those OTHER people..."

And as for the models of today's journalists-in-training, here's my own ungrounded speculation: It's not the middle-aged, unattractive, "serious" personalities like Russert. Rather, it's younger and more attractive people like Anderson Cooper, Maria Menounos, and Campbell Brown. Or probably even more likely: the Sarah Jessica Parker character in "Sex in the City." (Yes, I know most of those figures are not actual news reporters.)

Among journalists themselves, I think Digby is generally right that they all just want to be perceived as the smartest, cleverest, and wittiest person in the room. I.e., Dana Milbank and Maureen Dowd.

Posted by John
March 25, 2007

Neiwert has a good post up on this topic: here.

Posted by John
March 25, 2007

Sorry, here's neiwert's link again:

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/03/joke-line.html

Posted by Enceladus
March 25, 2007

Neiwert's post is good, but he's completely wrong about Lippmann. Lippmann didn't argue that the rabble are stupid and need to be controlled.

Instead, he just knew that people have to work and do other things for a living, and that they don't all have the time and inclination to stay politically informed and engaged. He also recognized that social reality was way too complex for any one person to understand.

He hoped that the public could be informed by certified experts and specialists. But ultimately, Dewey and Habermas got it right by pointing out that experts are an elite class in themselves, and that they therefore can't speak for a broad public interest.

Seems kinda relevant...

Posted by John
March 25, 2007

I think you're taking Neiwert's words about Lippmann to an extreme. But I think it is illuminating to consider here not what Lippman actually said, but what others *think* Lippmann said.

In one model (let's call it Neiwert's), the "elites" are the smart authoritarians, telling the rabble how and what to think.

In your model, the "elites" are specialists and experts, trained in interpreting and summarizing complex situations for a public that must be kept informed.

If you look at someone like Klein or Kurtz, my expectation is that they would mouth loyalty to your interpretation of Lippmann, while internalizing Neiwert's.

Posted by Enceladus
March 25, 2007

"If you look at someone like Klein or Kurtz, my expectation is that they would mouth loyalty to your interpretation of Lippmann, while internalizing Neiwert's."

I completely agree, and this is basically Dewey's critique of Lippmann.

To paraphrase a typically empty Broder-esque sentiment: "Clearly this debate won't be resolved any time soon."

Posted by John
March 25, 2007

"Both sides make good points. Maybe the answer is somewhere in the middle."

Hey -- that's fun.

Posted by Enceladus
March 25, 2007

"Only time will tell."

OK, I'll stop.

Posted by John
March 25, 2007

On a tangential but still related note, here's an example of what happens when a *real* expert stands up to interpret and summarize the complex issue of world health:

http://laloca.org/archived/5499

Although it's a long talk, the presentation of the data is extremely dramatic and incredibly effective. It actually had me on the edge of my seat. Admittedly, I am a sucker for the visual display of quantitative information, but wow.

Hat tip to Alejna at http://collectingtokens.wordpress.com

Can you imagine what journalism would be like if people like Hans Rosling were given time to present their analyses?

Posted by look outside the box!
March 25, 2007

I actually watched the forum online.

I'd like to leave the validity/non-validity of the "joke" email for a moment and say that, out of this field of Democratic candidates, only John Edwards has a detailed plan and pulls no punches when he says that, in order for any plan to work, taxes will have to go up. If you, as readers of this poorly detailed, blog entry, are really concerned about health care, why are you not just as angry about how little prepared the rest of the field is to answer the important questions on what a comprehensive, universal, health care system will look like, how it is achieved and how much it will cost?

Posted by John
March 25, 2007

btw: my various criticisms aside, I really do consider Karen to be one of the "good guys". She really does try to add more depth and honesty to her reporting and analysis then the average bear.

Posted by John
March 25, 2007

Oops. "Than", not "then".

Posted by Hyde Moore
March 25, 2007

Just wondering why the entry -- and an earlier one -- portrayed Senator Obama in such a poor light, especially for not offering a detailed plan, while saying about Senator Clinton, "Hillary Clinton doesn't have a plan either, but she by now has this issue in her bone marrow, so she sounded completely on top of it."

So, for someone who has the issue "in her bone marrow," why no grief for not offering a plan?

Is the difference that Senator Clinton "sounded on top of it" and Obama didn't? And if so, what does that mean? If other accounts are correct, Obama laid down a foundation of principles -- which he will obviously need to flesh out.

Just curious why the candidate touting "experience" is given a pass.

Posted by Health Policy worker
March 25, 2007

Thanks for shitting on my job. See if I read this crap blog again.

Posted by SlackerInc
March 25, 2007

Thanks, Elvis. I do agree that it was cool of Tumulty to come blog about it.

I don't mind, btw, hearing from reporters in a way that gives us a "backstage pass" to their life--in fact, I relish it. And I don't expect that backstage acess to reveal only a constant, earnest dedication to get to the heart of the issues. But if they are going to be snarky, I wish (echoing a poster upthread) it would be to roll their eyes when candidates use some "spontaneous" joke over and over, or even just to complain about constantly getting on and off the bus to hear the same speeches...stuff like that. When the routine is broken for a substantive policy debate, that should be a welcome change of pace, I'd think.

-Alan

Posted by chris
March 25, 2007

What's with the too-cool-for-school brat? What the hell?

Karen Tumulty is a lazy reporter who should be fired.

Posted by nandlal k pancholi
March 25, 2007

US Healthcare system needs to be made cost effective.The present system is extravagant and does not take sufficient cognizance of citizen's welbeing and welfare.Present healthcare system is overtaxing US Economy without giving reasonable returns.With a viw to addressing effectively the heathcare problems of US Citizens squandering of funds over unviable unimaginative research projects should be diverted towards creating better healthcare infrastructure.Though healthcare research in core areas should continue wasteful expenditure over white elephant research projects should be abruptly stopped.For instance AIDS Research by amateur scientists should be discouraged but by scientists with proven track record may continue.Spending millions of dollars mindlessly does not improve healthcare system but it improves by way of creating credible and accountable healthcare infrastructure at the graasroots level.R & D should continue but high cost impracticable research projects should not be financed by the Government but should be referred to NGOs for scrutiny and be allowed subject to their approval.

NANDLAL K PANCHOLI
309,NANUBHAI TOWERS
MAHESANA NAGAR, NIZAMPURA
BARODA-390002,GUJARAT,INDIA

EMAIL ayurcure@yahoo.com

Posted by diane lake
March 25, 2007

It's all well and good that Edwards has a proposal but, I think you forget that he has the time to do those things early.
The other candidates have day jobs that take up alot of time.
They are also going to make sure that what they propose is going to be detailed and good. not put together overnight to suit your impatience.

Posted by julimac
March 26, 2007

SWAMPLAND:Nothing to see here, move along
SWAMPLAND:All quicksand, all the time.
SWAMPLAND:Lurkers beware, commenters be warned.

Posted by Claire-Ellen Baxter
March 26, 2007

Hillary Clinton is the true Health Care candidate. She has never "stopped" working on health care for Americans and she was clearly the most informed and the most confident at the Health Care Forum on Saturday. I urge everyone to watch the videos of all the speeches.

Posted by cfaller96
March 26, 2007

Many, many commenters have already said this, but I'll add my stupid voice to the crowd as well. Whoever texted that message deserves to rot in hell. Yes, it was a joke, but it was in poor taste and confirmed what we already knew about the MSM: you people are lazy elitists that take no pride in your work. F--k you all.

I will give a tiny, tiny bit of credit to Karen Tumulty for reprinting that text message, though. I think she knew exactly what she was doing, and knew that it would draw the ire of the liberal bloggies. That credit only goes so far, however, as sprinkled throughout the rest of her post are petty little complaints about how long the forum went, and how tired she was, and blah blah blah.

Karen, it's good that you exposed some of the underbelly of the MSM, but it's bad that you are part of that underbelly as well.

Universal Health Care matters. If journalists don't want to write about things that matter, then they should stop being journalists and go sell insurance.

Posted by MaryR
March 26, 2007

Obama didn't finish his term paper and needs an extension of two months or so. Why would a candidate for the biggest job in America go to a forum on health care unprepared? He isn't ready yet. When he has the job experience, he should reapply. No more on the job training! Remember, they said that Bush would surround himself with experienced people - like Rumsfeld, Cheney, Ashcroft, Powell. It doesn't work out so well.

Posted by dataguy
March 26, 2007

This story must be a joke. "I'm still trying to figure it out." Geezus, what a maroon.

Read the papers. TAKE SOME FUCKING NOTES. It's like high school or college, you moronic imbeciles - you take what they say, and RESTATE IT IN YOUR OWN WORDS. Sometimes, you use the quotation marks (the little hatch jobbies) to indicate an actual verbatim quote.

How can reputable news organizations hire such brain-dead morons?

Posted by Carrespondence
March 26, 2007

As a former reporter who genuinely cares about pesky little things like facts and public policy, I regularly rant against the mainstream media's seeming lack of regard for the same.

But the red-meat vultures who think professionals kidding with each other while doing their jobs is a serious threat to our republic seriously need to lighten up a little. Let's not fall into the typical trap of making the joke the story instead of the issue.

The right-wingnuts say progressives don't have a sense of humor. Let's stop proving them right.

Posted by moi
March 26, 2007

hillary is getting a pass on this one: i watched the presentation. She screamed her way through it; basically said nothing about covering the uncovered and touted all the bills she's passed.

this comes back to obama's elitist presentation mannerisms which leave "blue-colored" folks unconvinced.

both he and hillary said the same things; hillary just got the "politics" part right. she said nothing new than obama except that she wants a conversation on healthcare.

Posted by Carrespondence
March 27, 2007

By the way, the joke had nothing to do with health care. If the forum had been about monetary policy in Botswana, the joke would have been:

In the press file.

We have taken a vote.

We don't want to write about monetary policy in Botswana.

Please adjust accordingly.

xoxo,

Posted by Jaye C.
March 27, 2007

Wow, there are a lot of smart people here that can divine a reporter's attitude toward and knowledge of health-care policy from one joke! And they can extrapolate that assumption to most or all journalists! Without doing any interviews! Man, that's impressive. I wish I could read minds. At my news organization, we have to actually report stuff, which means interviewing people and doing research and putting it in context etc. And on a short deadline. We're not allowed to write about what people think or feel, unless we have a direct quotation that backs it up; we're largely confined to writing about what people (and organizations) say and do. We don't get to incorporate our opinions, unless we're columnists or reviewers, and the most respected and highly paid among us are the investigative reporters. While we do have a good health-care plan, I count my blessings for that. I am acutely aware that not everyone, including journalists, has coverage, and I am in fact educating myself on health-care policy on my own time. (I highly recommend "The Cure" by Dr. David Gratzer.) I don't know where all this talk of pensions comes from. Who has pensions? I do know newspapers are going out of business right and left. I can't speak to the quality of journalism students; I didn't go to J-school. I got an MBA and worked in business in Japan before becoming an editor. But then I've only been in this field for 9 years, what do I know? I do know that we have only contempt for the superficial, tabloid journalism seen in the coverage of Anna Nicole Smith etc and yet sometimes our bosses require that we cover such subjects, although not 24-7, thank goodness. I also know that viewer interest, or at least perceived interest, is part of what drives that kind of coverage. I think it's wrong for TV news to pander to voyeuristic appetites. I don't know whether my organization is considered MSM as we are owned by a private company, for which I'm also grateful. I share most of the serious concerns in previous posts about the state of journalism, but lazy reporters is not what it's about (and if any journalist is lazy, it's partly because his/her editor lets them slide). Editorial policy is driven by the owners, publishers and editors-in-chief. A good place to start for a serious look at media control and standards is the documentary film "Orwell Rolls in His Grave."
Gotta get back to work. (PS, I can think of alternate explanations for why a reporter wouldn't want to cover a health-care policy "debate" by the Democratic candidates; knowing it's likely to be full of superficial accusations, solutions and platitudes and lacking in substance is one possibility. Yes, by all means, let's skip the meta-anlysis and discuss the issues.)

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