Cheney's Iran Fantasy

So your read on yesterday's vote was that Bush and Cheney need to be given (more) unchecked power?

Good lord, man, read your own writing.

Jim:

I think Joe is saying that Cheney us insane and should be removed from office. Or maybe that's just what I think.

A good question is, what influence does Cheney have left? I know he's good at "hacking" the bureaucracy to put his policies in place. Laura Rosen had a good piece on this a while ago in the Washington Monthly:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2007/0701.rozen.html

What resources do Cheney and company still have to provoke a war with Iran? Could one of Cheney's loyalists *appear* to be implementing Plan B, but really working to provoke Plan A? This wouldn't surprise me at all given the history of these wackos:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,999737,00.html

Maybe this is a good place for the question: Why, at this time, would we want to destabilize Iran? I agree they are far from a friendly nation, but given the amount of resources and lives being put into the attempt to create order in Iraq (whether ill-advised or not), wouldn't opening up another front in which chaos can rule just increase the difficulties of the American military exponentially?

We could certainly cut the head off of Iran, but that won't kill the snake, it'll just let the hydra pop up some more heads.

Vanity Fair had a good profile on Cheney awhile back. The man is clearly out of his mind. He insists on never being driven the same route twice and travels with a biochemical hazard suit, because he's convinced that there's a secret terrorist named "The Jackal" who is trying to kill him personally. God help us all.

A question arises from all this: Is Cheney mentally competant?

Might be a good idea for the next Time cover story, now that the systematic dismantling of the civil service system has been deemed un-newsworthy.

"A question arises from all this: Is Cheney mentally competent?"

Given Bush's "terra-ists gon' kill ya childrens!" performance the other day, I'd ask the question of both of them.

If you think of this from the point of view of Iran, is it any wonder they are concerned about building up their nuclear power? Here is the US making veiled and not so veiled treats against them, they watch what the US did to Iraq (invaded on false pretexts), and the US figuratively spat upon their peace offering before the invasion because the US won't talk to them. So, no diplomacy from us (the bad guys in their eyes) just threats. And Cheney going on that trip to shake his fist at them from an even closer range. Geez!

Florida: " there's a secret terrorist named 'The Jackal' who is trying to kill him personally. "

Last I knew, "The Jackel" was rotting in a French prison.. Something happen that I'm not aware of?

Steve Clemons has a great deal of credibility, in my book. Though I disagree with him on a few issues, he always has a reasoned, well-articulated argument, stated without the kind of vitriol and non-sensical fallacies that the Joe Kleins of the press employ. this is worrisome. He has a first-rate mind and very high and credible sources. Very worrisome.

Steve Clemons has a great deal of credibility, in my book. Though I disagree with him on a few issues, he always has a reasoned, well-articulated argument, stated without the kind of empty, vitriolic stenography and non-sensical fallacies that the Joe Kleins of the press employ (see Klein's prior post for an example). He has a first-rate mind and very high and credible sources. This is worrisome. Very worrisome.

Wait, the Joint Chiefs were all opposed to the surge?

I thought this whole deal was being driven by the military commanders. I thought it was beyond the pale that Congress is trying to micromanage this war effort.

Now it turns out that Congress is merely trying to defer to the judgment of the Joint Chiefs, as against a President who in fact ignores them? Knock me over with a feather.

From the article: "...collude with Israel, nudging Israel at some key moment in the ongoing standoff between Iran's nuclear activities and international frustration over this to mount a small-scale conventional strike against Natanz using cruise missiles"

Is Israel really stupid enough to go along with this? (Kevin Drum had something about this yesterday:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_05/011376.php )

But even if Israel treats these people like the fruitcakes that they are, the fact that people are scheming like this is worrying. I hope this issue gets some sunlight in the press...

"Wait, the Joint Chiefs were all opposed to the surge?"

If this could be verified somehow, it would conclusively expose as a lie every statement on the matter made by Bush in the last six months. I wonder what the troops would think about the CIC lying about the advice he received from the Joint Chiefs?

Again, it is apparently not newsworthy.

SpotWeld - "Why, at this time, would we want to destabilize Iran?"

Because that is what we do. We find an oil-rich nation that may or may not be a democracy and we undermine it. I could give a broad conspiracy-theory type explanation about how we benefit from ME turmoil because it increases oil prices but most people just tune out with that kind of talk. Suffice it to say that destabilizing Iran helps to weaken the Iraqi Shiite-dominated government which will then, hopefully, be more willing to deal fairly with the Sunni minority on the sharing of their oil revenue. Meanwhile, we aid the Sunnis militarily and they 'promise' to rid the country of their Al Qeada connections afterward.

Joe - Thanks for the post on this. It is very important to me that members of the media establishment are kept up to date on the intentions of our Vice-President.

"I can confirm, through military and intelligence sources ..."

Do editors at TIME ever audit Joe's claims about sources, or is the policy to just take Joe's word for all of this?

(If we could only get the leftover cold war nut cases out of our government. This is probably going to take years to do.)

Does Cheney unchecked have anything to do with the Iraqis resistance to the Oil Deal related to foreign contracts and the fact that China is 'out negotiating' the US on other energy deals?

Count me in on Heckle and Jeckle flying over the cuckoo's nest.

Where does Cheney think he's going to find soldiers to fight this new war? The man is delusional... but we knew that. I wonder if it's meant to be a nice clean air war... sort of like, oh, Vietnam was supposed to be.

As long as we continue to have a Congress without the political will to make tough choices, what is "best for the troops" will continue to be the escape hatch they dive through.

Lack of will to say, "Yes, we're not sending them any more equipment because that will force withdrawal" is lack of will to effectively support our troops by bringing them home!

Sigh...once again, Joe:

This reporting is valueless.
You're essentially repeating administration gossip as if it were fact, without allowing readers to form their own conclusions about the credibility of your sources.

Why is this so hard to understand?
Your justification for printing this is that you have a second anonymous (therefore reader-unverifiable) source?

Commenters:

Is Joe simply testing yesterday's thesis that you will all bite his Judith Milleresque "scoops" if the "news" confirms your partisan/idealogical premises (despite all of yesterday's comments purporting the contrary)?

Please folks...a little consistency here...any outrage at all about his sourcing?

"Where does Cheney think he's going to find soldiers to fight this new war?"

Hey, this is just the beginning of the Long War, or World War IV, as Normal Podhoretz was saying recently.:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/cm/main/viewArticle.aip?id=10882

Once things have started moving, you fire up the propaganda machine and you've got conscription.

There should be plenty of outrage about the story, but without something more solid (ie. three sources, one each for three of the positions on the JCS) what the hell is the reader to make of it?

It so anonymous and obscure that it is useless.

Joe, can you clarify Cheney's plan B.

Would attacking Iran be just surgical bombing with bunker busters? What type of war heads do bunker busters have?

http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2003_03/drelletal_mar03.asp
'Utility of Bunker Busters'

"...any outrage at all about his sourcing?"

I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree on sourcing. Remember, Watergate was built on anonymous sources.

Now, in principle, transparency is the best way to go, but in cases where the source is actually taking a risk by giving information (not avoiding attribution simply to more effectively smear or spread misinformation) anonymous sourcing can be a good thing. Here's a couple things I mentioned in a couple of the other threads:

A great quote from *One Percent Doctrine* is from William Sloane Coffin: "I never thought I'd live to see the day when old fashioned journalism would be a form of civil disobedience."

http://tinyurl.com/2ussaw

On the next page:

***"During my two years writing this book, I found my self more and more concerned about my sources, and protecting them, than I ever had in my twenty years as a journalist. None of them, not one, had done anything improper--legally or ethically. But they had, similarly, committed modest acts of civil disobedience."***

In other words, these sources often risked their careers in very real ways. Similarly, Joe is not quoting "high administration officials" here who are trying to get out the administration's message, he's quoting people who have been risking their careers to give him information, very real risks when you consider the way this administration has behaved (you'd have to read the rest of Suskind's book to get the sense of the way they've operated).

If Cheney wants to take military action against Iran, lets let him lead the first wave. He's very good at ordering others to their death, but has continually opted out of any type of service to his country other than being a political parasite that uses the system to enrich himself.

BREAKING: Cheney is bloodthirsty maniac!

In other news, the sun rose today.

"Bush asked the Chiefs about the wisdom of a troop "surge" in Iraq. They were unanimously opposed."

Please expand on this. Do you have proof that Bush has lied about what his generals are telling him?

Has Time covered this inconvenient fact?

Why isn't this front page news?

"Bush asked the Chiefs about the wisdom of a troop "surge" in Iraq. They were unanimously opposed."

Please expand on this. Do you have proof that Bush has lied about what his generals are telling him?

Has Time covered this inconvenient fact?

Why isn't this front page news?

Stuart Zechman - I understand your skepticism of Joe and his sources considering how many lives have been lost from past experiences:

"Is Joe simply testing yesterday's thesis that you will all bite his Judith Milleresque "scoops" if the "news" confirms your partisan/idealogical premises (despite all of yesterday's comments purporting the contrary)?"

But I thought that the heat he caught from the blogs was a little overdone. I do not think there is a way around sourcing and we have benefitted from it in the past. I agree that reporters need to be more cautious about how they are used but it is difficult to see how transparency can be brought into this.

Just my $0.02

Hear! Hear!

Posted by cal
May 25, 2007
"Bush asked the Chiefs about the wisdom of a troop "surge" in Iraq. They were unanimously opposed."

Please expand on this. Do you have proof that Bush has lied about what his generals are telling him?

Has Time covered this inconvenient fact?

Why isn't this front page news?

Reading this and the linked article, I'm less concerned about Joe's sourcing policies and more concerned that the Vice President is not only crazy, but bats**t crazy.

The man's complete separation from reality and sense has been no secret. This, however, sounds like he's one step away from trying to get "the button" pushed while ranting about his precious bodily fluids and walking barefoot only on the cleanest, purist, whitest towels available from the White House laundry.

Given that GWB values blind loyalty above all else, and the only kind of "incompetency" that the President will punish is the kind that involves disagreeing with him, is there any chance that revelations like this could get Cheney put out to pasture, or at least kept on a very short leash?

HEADS UP**********ALERT

CNN International is hyping an hour of news involving Bush, the Big A, Tehran, etc. Starts in 10 min.

JJ:

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, so please bear with me:

"Now, in principle, transparency is the best way to go, but in cases where the source is actually taking a risk by giving information (not avoiding attribution simply to more effectively smear or spread misinformation) anonymous sourcing can be a good thing."

How do you know that the source is "actually taking a risk"? Did you find that information somewhere other than the original post?

"...Joe is not quoting "high administration officials" here who are trying to get out the administration's message, he's quoting people who have been risking their careers to give him information..."

How do you know which people he's quoting?
In what manner were you able to determine that these sources were of the latter, and not the former type?

I would very much like to explain to you my understanding of the differences between Watergate/NSA domestic spying leak reporting and anonymous political gossip, but I think that might obscure the important explanation required to sustain your arguments, so:

Please explain to me exactly how you know that which you know in order to be capable of characterizing Joe's sources, so that I might be able to come to similar conclusions myself...

Terrapin:

Understood, thanks for clarifying.

It's yesterday's "heat" bringers (of which I am certainly one) to whom I'm addressing these questions.

Because that is what we do. We find an oil-rich nation that may or may not be a democracy and we undermine it. I could give a broad conspiracy-theory type explanation about how we benefit from ME turmoil because it increases oil prices but most people just tune out with that kind of talk.
********
I heard someone say yesterday that if Iraq's largest export had been turnips, Saddam would still be in power. That might lend a wee bit of credence to your "broad conspiracy-theory type explanation."

Stuart Zechman - I guess I was one of the persons who objected to Joe's sourcing, so I'll assume your observations were partly aimed at me. Speaking for myself, I am reacting to Clemons' post, who in my opinion has excellent sources and a great deal of credibility and is an extremely responsible and temperate blogger. I don't hold that same opinion of Joe Klein.

Joe Klein saying essentially the same thing as Steve Clemons is not exactly the same thing (as far as how much I believe him) as Klein quoting some anonymous source about how rosy things are in Iraq (specifically, Anbar Province) despite much evidence to the contrary, which I presented to him and to which he has thus far had no response.

I'm not sure this is what you are getting at.

Totally off topic, but what was up with John Boehner's little crying performance yesterday? That guy is a total drama queen.

Imagine, though--the idea of our soldiers being killed for a lie doesn't make him cry. The idea that we stop sending more of them to be killed for that lie, however, does make him cry. What a sick twisted freak.

I'd be in favor of more transparency as far as reporters and their anonymous sources go. In many cases it's really obvious that sources are simply part of a message machine.

But, in some cases, sources are simply career people who are just trying to do their jobs, not political types, hacks, etc. Those people can get fired for talking to the press. Those are the people Suskind is talking about.

It would be a shame to lose those people talking to the press, because in the conflict between the career professionals and movement conservatives we've seen in recent years, the career professionals are on our side. Cheney and his minions are loons. That's why the non-loons are talking with the press. Would you want the people who talk to Sy Hersch to stop talking to them? No way.

More transparency is needed, no doubt. But I hope if we're on our way to going to war with Iran, the career professionals feel free to leak things to the press every single day. If Joe tells us all sorts of details about his source, if I were that source, I might get nervous.

Remember, the NSA spied on journalists a while back, at least in part to find out which sources were talking with them:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Firstfruits

So there are reasons for people to be nervous about talking to the press.

On the other hand, I don't want the press to be a conduit for smears, propaganda, and misinformation from anonymous sources. This is the right tree to be barking up.

No doubt there are lots of gray areas that make me nervous given recent history. But you don't want to kill the goose laying the eggs--I want Sy Hersch and Ron Suskind's phones to be ringing off the hook, especially if we're on our way to war with Iran. Now Joe is no Sy Hersch or Ron Suskind, but I hope the right people call him too. While some skepticism can be warranted in some cases, we shouldn't be so puritanical that we can't get crucial information out of the bureaucracy...

If Cheney is mentally unstable is anyone in the press going to tell us before he leaves office? If Bush is back on the bottle, will anyone be courageous enough (besides the Globe) to say so in print?

I fear we're going to learn a tremendous amount after Bush and Cheney leave office that we ought to know now, but the people in a position to tell us don't have the courage. So we'll have to wait for their tell-all books after it's too late to do anything about it.

I don't think all this "sourcing" discussion is particularly helpful. You either get why it is a problem or you don't. Klein doesn't and likely never will.

The only thing that I find remotely interesting about all this is how it ties into how most journalists have a condescending attitude toward their readers. They don't provide readers with all of the information that THEY WOULD WANT if they were news consumers.

I actually think this is a structural flaw of journalistic culture, because, ON THIS BLOG (granted, after being heavily prodded), Klein provided MUCH MORE of the type of context that is helpful in evaluating a source's credibility.

Klein didn't provide it in the original story because that isn't what journalists generally do. He did provide in on the blog because that is exactly what bloggers do.

That is, blogging culture fosters transparency and traditional journalism doesn't. Here, Klein eventually provided what we all wanted even though he initially believed the criticism from the "usual suspects" was unwarranted. Clearly, blogging culture deserves some credit.

Fergit Iran: Cheney has been busy for six years subverting the government and Constitution of the United States.

Fergit impeachment. Time for a treason trial -- which need not be called off after 2008.

"Similarly, Joe is not quoting "high administration officials" here who are trying to get out the administration's message, he's quoting people who have been risking their careers to give him information, very real risks when you consider the way this administration has behaved (you'd have to read the rest of Suskind's book to get the sense of the way they've operated)."

JJ, I respectfully disagree with you on this. How do you know who Joe is quoting, whether they're high administration officials or not, whether they've been risking their careers to get him information, etc? How do you know that any of these things are true?

I think Stuart Zechman is absolutely correct about this.

Posted by Florida
May 25, 2007
Totally off topic, but what was up with John Boehner's little crying performance yesterday? That guy is a total drama queen.<

The man is not well. They say his crying jags happen more frequently in the afternoon. Hmmm. A little tippling problem, perhaps? One of his best buds, prison inmate Republican Bob Ney, had a little problem with that as well, as I recall.

I don t think it s that simple to bring it down to plan A or plan B.
If you check Robin Wright's story in the post a while ago (April) and how both Cheney and Gates sided together against Rice proposal to free the Iranians kidnapped in Iraq, you'll realize that's there is more gray than we like to see. They also sided together again in approving talks with iranians in baghdad.
Plus, there is still lot of time to go before US runs out of options C and D and E.... Iranians are not like Saddam or Taliban, the minute they feel the pressure of the sanctions and the hostility of the arab neighbors, they will back down on their nuclear issue.
This is the same regime that backed down in its war with Iraq in 1988, and supported the US in Afghanistan and is a major force that holds iraqi government together today. And Cheney knows this.

Two citations to the Joint Chiefs objecting to troops surge. One is a letter in response to an article, but points out the truth of the story. I sure complete articles in free sources could be found.

"Perilous path of troop surge
Source: Trudy Rubin
White House officials are aggressively promoting the idea of sending more U.S. troops to Iraq over the unanimous objections of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, according to news reports.

This is the right idea at the wrong time - put forward for unclear reasons. The White House has yet to answer the pointed questions of Colin Powell this weekend on CBS's Face the Nation: "What mission is it these troops are supposed to accomplish? . . . Is it something that is really
Published on 2006-12-20, Page A19, Philadelphia Inquirer, The (PA)"

"Letters
Cut off war funds

I'm with the Joint Chiefs of Staff on a troop "surge." It's not at all clear what it will accomplish to increase the size of the U.S. military in Iraq by 20,000, 40,000 or even 50,000 persons. There's no clear mission for the extra people to perform. The time needed to get them all trained, equipped and into uniform could stretch well into 2008, and with the Iraq war being as unpopular as it is, it's
Published on 2006-12-26, Page A14, Philadelphia Inquirer, The (PA)"

Joe did you accidently let this information out or something?

" Bush asked the Chiefs about the wisdom of a troop "surge" in Iraq. They were unanimously opposed."

How can you just mention this in passing without realizing the implications?

Exactly... and just as the new congress convened in January to start implementing the new policies the voters had clearly supported, Bush started the surge by starting the deployment of two new Battalions in Baghdad. Thus:

Bush to Joint Chiefs: "F--- you, I'm the decider!"
Bush to Congress: "F--- you, I'm the decider!"
Bush to voters: "F--- you, I'm the decider!"
Bush to troops: "F--- you, I'm the CiC!"

But the press soft-pedals every outrageous act and statement by the President. And Joe is focusing on collateral issues with masked sources. And the netroots are 'unhinged'.

Probably good for Joe to know:

Think Progress: "Korb: Petraeus Cannot Be Trusted To Give Unbiased Assessment On Iraq"

***Many lawmakers will formulate their position on the basis of a coming report from Gen. David Petraeus, commander of the multinational force, to the president. Unfortunately, based on behavior in his last command in Iraq and the manner in which he received his current position, Petraeus is not a reliable source for an unbiased assessment.***

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/25/korb-on-petraeus/

Joe, have you checked out that your anonymous sources and Steve's aren't the same ones? That's happened before in this sorry mess of a war (I'm looking at you, "Curveball.") I'm inclined to believe it either way, but just to check ...

Boehner and the 19th hole. Hmmmmm 'Andy's Cafe'?

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/article/061115/15/boehnerfacts.html

But, seriously, Joe can you explain or expand the 'chiefs unanimously opposed the surge in Iraq'?

The breakdown between field officiers/noncoms being quoted that they did not have enough troops for the mission continually brings into question the communication 'up the chain of command'. Biggies come to mind: Abu Grhaib, the 101st kidnapping in 06 in the 'triangle of death', loss of mid-level officers, the latest kidnapping... .

Can you expand Cheney's Plan A for Iran (Nuke'em Barbara Ann)? Beyond stupid what would the blowback be? Is Iran mobilized to cross the border which we don't control into Iraq? Would they link with the Mehdi Army against our troops who are now deployed in very vulnerable positions?

In other words I am asking again, what is Cheney's plan B?

How would you access the possibility of al Sadr taking control of the Iraqi government with a 'unity' plea to get US withdrawal time tables?

Can someone tell me why Cheney hasn't been impeached yet?

Okay, I get that Democrats want to avoid impeachment hearings of Bush for past transgressions (e.g. lying about the war), particularly when the Democrats largely acted as willing suckers.

And I get that Democrats want to avoid impeaching Bush for present illegal behavior that arguably was undertaken in order to "protect America." (e.g. domestic spying)

However, is there any excuse for leaving in power a nutcase who literally wants to start a ("tactical") nuclear war with Iran? Can any Democrats GUARANTEE me that Bush won't suffer from a medical emergency or other tragedy in the next two years? How the hell the Democrats can permit Cheney to remain "a heartbeat away" from the Presidency is utterly beyond me?

Oooh, Joe got a second source.

He must be getting serious about this jernalism thing.

The man is not well. They say his crying jags happen more frequently in the afternoon. Hmmm. A little tippling problem, perhaps? One of his best buds, prison inmate Republican Bob Ney, had a little problem with that as well, as I recall.
*****
He definitely is a troubled man--not just for his crying jags though. If he is tippling at lunch, that might explain his confusion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/crying-while-lying_b_49332.html
Crying While Lying
by Taylor Marsh
Waaaaaaaaaaaaah!

You really have to watch it to believe it. Obviously, after yesterday's disastrous cave in by the majority of Democrats, Republicans think they can push anything.

Speaking of the 19 religious zealots from Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Lebanon who have been identified as the perpetrators of those attacks, the ranking Republican in the House was shaking with anger at Democrats who had delayed the dispatch of the latest billions to fund the president's Iraq adventure.

"After 3,000 of our fellow citizens died at the hands of these terrorists, when are we going to stand up and take them on? When are we going to defeat 'em?" demanded Boehner. "Ladies and gentlemen, let me tell you, if we don't do it now, and if we don't have the courage to defeat this enemy, we will long, long regret it. So thank you for the commitment to get the job done today."
[...]

Was Boehner crying for the 3,000 killed on 9/11/2001? Was he crying because Bush diverted our attention from Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda in Afghanistan by taking us to war in Iraq? Was he crying because it looks as if we are still going to be fighting in Iraq during the 2008 elections?
--OR--
Was he doing the same as Bush, Cheney, Rice, and all the other GOPer minions--conflating Iraq with those who attacked us on 9/11?

I know a large percentage of Americans inaccurately thought Iraq and Saddam were somehow involved in the events of 9/11 and/or that Saddam had funded al Qaeda because of the nonsense the above villains told us, and there are probably still quite a few who believe this nonsense, but I honestly would have thought that Boehner might know that it wasn't true.

So, what was his excuse?
Drunk again? Lying through his tear?

Good to hear confirmation of Clemons' story, Joe. It's pretty damn scary.

He must be getting serious about this jernalism thing.
****
No, no! It's "journamalism."

Posted by JJ
May 25, 2007

What resources do Cheney and company still have to provoke a war with Iran?
----------------------------

Israel's right wingers are all the resources Cheney needs.

Read Clemons' piece. Cheney and the neocons are scheming an 'end run' around Bush by having Israel attack Iran, provoking an Iranian counterattack on the built-up U.S. forces in the area.

Rumors about this have been circulating in the left blogosphere for nearly a year now.

These people will do it if someone doesn't stop them. Bush will have no choice but to respond to an attack on U.S. ships.

Posted by JJ
May 25, 2007
From the article: "...collude with Israel, nudging Israel at some key moment in the ongoing standoff between Iran's nuclear activities and international frustration over this to mount a small-scale conventional strike against Natanz using cruise missiles"

Is Israel really stupid enough to go along with this? (Kevin Drum had something about this yesterday:
-------------------------

Israeli right wingers went along with Iraq, and look at how well that turned out?

Then again, a completely destabilized Iraq may have been Israel's goal in the first place. A nation in a civil war is not much of a threat to Israel---at present.

Think about the failure that is Bush's Iraq policy for a minute.

Either some otherwise intelligent people failed in a basic understanding of human nature and the Middle East, and we ended up with a predicted civil war in Iraq.

Or, some intelligent, scheming people decided they wanted a civil war in Iraq as a policy goal.

The first is really hard to believe, the second is a conspiracy theory.

As usual, Klein is just pulling quotes out of his arse

I guess that the main thing here is for Joe to understand that the function of "news analysis" has been ATM'ed out to former "news consumers", and that how he reports is as relevant as what he reports.

This means that when he reports that somebody said to him that "Cheney wants to attack Iran", it requires from us the same cautioned, reasonable response merited by any claim to empirical knowledge, namely "How do you know that?".

Now if Joe's colleagues had been simply telling us for the past 7 years that the sun was going to rise the next day, then we might be inclined to suspend disbelief from time to time when it was explicitly asked of us ("trust me on this one, folks...the evidence will be out soon...").
Instead we're treated to almost petulant demands to surrender our faculties by the same profession that insisted that there were multiple, high-level official sources (all anonymous, of course) to be trusted in the matter of our country's just and honorable entry into war (amongst other important matters).

I think that Joe (like many in his field) expects us all to simply react to the substance of his pieces the way we would circa 1992.
This means we're supposed to mimic blind hatchlings in the nest waiting desperately for Momma-Bird Klein to return from wild Beltway flight and regurgitate bits of purported knowledge into our gaping little beaks.

In actuality, "how he reports" really has become inextricable from "what he reports" in the minds of all of these new "news analysts", i.e. his readership. That's why the commentary is as much focused on Joe as it is on what he tells us is so...and this is as it should be.

Joe, can you read a Roll Call? 'Cuz Harman voted *against* the Capitulation Bill yesterday, even though you quoted so extensively from her to bolster your own support of unconditional funding. Gee, Joke Line, is SHE one of your "trusted sources" that have informed you so well over the years?

Care to offer a correction (where you oh-so-desperately insist that you're still "substantively correct")?

Harman voted against the bill, a--hole.
http://tinyurl.com/2plkq4

Here's a link to a Washington Post front page article (December 18, 06, regarding the Joint Chiefs unanimous opposition to "the surge"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/18/AR2006121801477.html

Cheney wants war to keep the oil prices high. Why doesn't the News cover the National Oil Reserve. The president is obviously using the National Oil reserve to keep oil prices high intentionally. What's up with the News these days ???

Will 41 come to rescue 43?
He has attempted with the 2000 election, Iraq Study Group, not to mention Oil and Baseball.

Where is he

It may be that Vice President Cheney is just a sick old man--much older biologically than chronologically--and has had more than one mini-stroke, with the result that his cognitive ability is impaired. Review his medical history and you will see that he is at very high risk of stroke.

It is unlikely that his doctors have administered any of the well-known cognitive inventories to determine whether or not the Vice President is impaired. In my opinion abundant suggestive evidence exists to warrant such an inventory.

This is a scenario that is not well handled by the Constitution of the United States of America. Woodrow Wilson was out of it long before the end of his presidency. FDR was almost certainly out of it before his death while in office.

In my opinion Vice President Cheney is incompetent, probably as a result of cognitive impairment consequent upon many "minor" ischemic strokes.

What anybody can do about it is unclear.

Shorter Joe Klein:

Impeach Cheney First

"Read Clemons' piece. Cheney and the neocons are scheming an 'end run' around Bush by having Israel attack Iran, provoking an Iranian counterattack on the built-up U.S. forces in the area.

Rumors about this have been circulating in the left blogosphere for nearly a year now.

These people will do it if someone doesn't stop them. Bush will have no choice but to respond to an attack on U.S. ships."

This is very simple folks. Provoke nuclear exchange between Israel and whomever has a bomb or two from North Korea (the supply routes are OPEN). Claim special war powers and dissolve our government. Establish police state. Current regime remains in power and waits for the the civil war.

In America.

Read history. See Nazi party rise. See parallels. Sign your national ID card.

And prepare.

This entire administration is sociopathic, if not psychopathic. If your statement, that Bush met opposition on his surge from the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff meeting, then how can he dare tell us that Congress is trying to micromanage this war? Congress and their Iraqi report have always told "W" to LISTEN to the military leaders, who have fallen by the wayside one by one because they have not agreed with this president! I fear our government much more than I fear the terrorists these days! Their insanity is where any fear Americans have should be placed!

It is neither new nor news that there was "unanimous disagreement" from the JCS in response to to the president's proposal for the troop surge in Iraq.

Nor is it news "The Joint Chiefs came to accept Bush's wishes [for the surge], especially after new Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates traveled to Iraq last month with the Joint Chiefs chairman, Gen. Peter Pace [which then] gave [Pace/JCS] enough to define a mission and its objectives." [2]

[1] White House, Joint Chiefs At Odds on Adding Troops by Robin Wright and Peter Baker; Washington Post, December 19, 2006; A01 [ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/18/AR2006121801477_pf.html ].

[2] Ibid.

Similarly unsurprising, Pentagon resistance to an attack on Iran absent actionable intelligence and/or sufficient targeting data.[1]

That this vice-president in firm if lunatic adherence to the administration's doctrine of preemptive war might be willing to forego such intelligence is likewise and hardly, a "surprise."

[1] Last Stand: The military’s problem with the President’s Iran policy by Seymour Hersh; New Yorker, July 10, 2006 [ http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/07/10/060710fa_fact ]

Can we afford a third war?

http://osi-speaks.blogspot.com/2007/06/senator-joe-lieberman-rachets-up-saber.html#links

I simply can't believe the myopic stupidity of some of the posts I'm reading here. Look ladies, the unpleasant fact is that those now running Iran truly believe that they have been ordained by God to spread destruction and chaos throughout the world so that the "Mahdi" (shia islam's version of Jeses Christ) will return and islamic rule can then be established throughout the world. These are NOT just "talking points" for the evening news or propaganda for the ignorant Iranian masses. These nutjobs actually believe this crap. Get it?

And now they are only a few years, perhaps even months, away from developing nuclear weapons. And yet you clowns seem to think Dick Cheney is the problem?!?! While I disagree with this administration on other issues such as stem cell research, I thank God daily that we have leaders who see and recognize this danger for what it is and are prepared to take decisive steps to deal with it rather than hiding their heads in the sand and hoping for the best.

"Can we afford a third war?" The real question should be "Can we afford NOT to have one?"

Dan... YOU'RE STUPID, MISINFORMED AND INSANE.

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Make a list of 10 things you can do before the next election to defeat every Republican in your district.

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