Now That I Have Your Attention...

Posted by sigh
June 11, 2007

http://time-blog.com/swampland/2007/01/now_that_i_have_your_attention_1.html

Posted by Riesz Fischer
June 11, 2007

I just got EPU'd.

Anyway:

HEY SWAMPCATS! DON'T JUST COMPLAIN ABOUT "MUDCAT", DO SOMETHING!

Here's the contact number for the Edwards campaign:

Phone: (919) 636-3131

Leave them a message!

Posted by Riesz Fischer
June 11, 2007

I just left them a message about "Mudcat" calling us the "Metropolitan wing" of the party.

Here's the contact page if you'd rather type something. (Be polite!)

http://johnedwards.com/about/contact/form/

Posted by Jake Gittes
June 11, 2007

Hey Genius...

I say this as a 110% die in the wool John Edwards fan....

But your grand entrance to this blog has apparently cost John Edwards some on-the-fence supporters here. So besides p#ssing me off, I'm sure it is going to p#ss off Edwards when he gets word of this, which he will. And the people that comment on this blog, based on my observations, support Edwards moreso than the other top Democratic candidates.

How about engaging the brain a little bit next time before you come in guns blazing, "feller"?

Posted by zota
June 11, 2007

I'm a Democrat who lives in a coastal city, and I loathe the stereotypes that have been placed upon me and my neighbors by Republican propagandists and marketing hacks out to make a buck.

Nice to meet you.

Posted by Bryan from Houston
June 11, 2007

Folks that have posted above. The guy has just made a sincere apology, and it's not like he molested a small child or murdered someone.

I saw recognize a wrong when you see it, but if you really want to encourage this type of behavior from others who REALLY, REALLY need to apologize cut Mudcat some slack. No need to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Btw Muddy,

You're getting warmer. :-)

Posted by Elvis Elvisberg
June 11, 2007

Cool beans, Mudcat, the simple apology will work wonders for you here. Thanks for reading comments and engaging commentors. I trust you realize that coming out by telling people to go to hell, without any references to any specific people or specific statements, was not the move of a conesnsus-builder.

In this post, you called yourself an “'elitism hating' Southern Democrat."

I call straw man.

Who are these purveyors of elitism? What are their positions of leadership and leadership in the Democratic Party? What do they say that puts off people in rural areas?

Why indulge the meme that people of faith are unwelcome in the Democratic Party. Can you _imagine_ the Democrats backing an atheist or agnositc on the national ticket? Or up for Senate in any state is the whole gosh-darn country? Or saying negative things about faith?

Nope, me neither.

Yes, you can find, out there on the Internets, some obnoxious stuff about rural people.

But you know, the fact that something is detectable on the Internet doesn't mean that it's anywhere close to the levers of power.

I think there's a possibility that you might, even with good intentions, play a counterproductive role, if you are running around picking fights with elitist, God-hating anti-Southerners. Because they just aren't a real force, to the extent they exist. Remember, the GOP gleefully bashes "latte-sipping liberals". There's no equivalent line of bull from Dems.

Or maybe there is, and you can call my attention to specifics and win the argument.

Posted by JJ
June 11, 2007

Shoot, guys. Give the guy a break. And he's not a racist.

Posted by fwiffo
June 11, 2007

I think a lot of the hostility you've run into so far comes down to an issue of trust.

You're part of the Democratic establishment, beltway insider, consultant class. Maybe you disagree with that characterization. But certainly, within the blogosphere, that's how you're going to be perceived. You're Bob Shrum with a southern accent.

The Democratic consultant class is widely distrusted among the netroots, and not without good reason. They're corrupt, incompetent, perenneal losers.

The blogosphere isn't going to just automatically trust you when you say your interests are the success of Democrats in national elections, and that you think the rural, Southern vote is key to that. They're going to think to themselves that your political and financial interests are in selling the idea that the rural, Southern vote is key to Democratic interests, whether it's true or not.

Frankly, the idea that Democrats need the South isn't a new one. We've been hearing it forever, and all the efforts to appeal there haven't yielded much at the national level.

When was the last time you heard a Republican consultant say "Republicans can't win if they can't appeal to the Northeast and/or West coast!"

Posted by Chad Okere
June 11, 2007

Mudcatt. I'm glad you seem to see why you've upset people. Calling for civility while simultaneously attacking people isn't a good start. Neither is complaining about stereotypes while at the same time using them yourself, or for that matter trying to defend Joe Kline by attacking "elitists" Joe Kline is the worst kind of elitist, someone who thinks his opinions matter regardless of accuracy, just because of who he is. There's no question that Scooter Libby should go to jail, but Kline can't see that because he can't imagine someone is his club doing anything wrong.

Your right about the "welfare queen" thing, and yeah no one talks about it.

This is the kind of post you should have started with.

Posted by Riesz Fischer
June 11, 2007

Mudflap: "I am simply an “elitism hating” Southern Democrat who loathes the stereotypes that have been placed upon me and my neighbors."

We're "elite" just because we have triple digit IQs?

If you don't like being stereotyped, don't stereotype us.

BTW, I just returned from a business trip in Toone, TN, and the people were wonderful. They never once called me an elitist or a pseudo-intellectual.

Posted by exhuming mccarthy
June 11, 2007

your posts would be much stronger if you identified by name the people you are being critical of rather than engaging strawmen.

All you have to do is name the "psudo-intellectuals" and "metropolitan opera" democrats you think are so powerful they are keeping you down.

I can very easily name numerous conservatives (Coulter, Hannity, OReilly etc) who use your exact same talking points to target democrats, and also don't identify who they are talking about. You are making their very same arguements, but of course, you are doing it out of "concern"

There is much more prejudice and badmouthing of the coastal urban community in the political arena than there is of the rural community.

If the only person you can name is Barbra Streisand, of someone none of us have heard of, it may be time to rethink your position and figure out that you've been duped by the right wing.

Posted by exhuming mccarthy
June 11, 2007

your posts would be much stronger if you identified by name the people you are being critical of rather than engaging strawmen.

All you have to do is name the "psudo-intellectuals" and "metropolitan opera" democrats you think are so powerful they are keeping you down.

I can very easily name numerous conservatives (Coulter, Hannity, OReilly etc) who use your exact same talking points to target democrats, and also don't identify who they are talking about. You are making their very same arguements, but of course, you are doing it out of "concern"

There is much more prejudice and badmouthing of the coastal urban community in the political arena than there is of the rural community.

If the only person you can name is Barbra Streisand, of someone none of us have heard of, it may be time to rethink your position and figure out that you've been duped by the right wing.

Posted by amberglow
June 11, 2007

So, you'll be standing with the people in one of those rural towns, Jena, LA, for instance? I would really really like Edwards to show up there and help. Talking the talk is cheap--walking the walk is what counts. Don't just tell us--do something to fix things and to publicly stand against racism.

http://afrospear.wordpress.com/2007/05/22/jena-louisiana-and-the-united-states/

Posted by Crusty Dem
June 11, 2007

Mudcat (if that is your real name), what are you proposing that your mythical, unnamed democrats do? How would you advise Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, or Al Gore to appeal to the God-fearing, gun-loving, NASCAR fan without looking like a pandering fool. My guess is that you have no idea.

The answer in the South is NOT idiotic pandering or "cultural tolerance" (whatever the hell that means). It's pointing out that the republicans talk big and deliver nothing. It's describing how progressive policies will improve their lives and reiterating that the only God the RNC prays to is the corporate dollar. But it's not about waving the confederate flag, or showing up at Talladega to cheer for Darrell Waltrip, or going snipe hunting (see Romney, Mitt). That's idiotic. And if you think that makes me a coastal elitist, then bring on the lattes and sushi.

Posted by Cranky Observer
June 11, 2007

> Folks that have posted above. The guy
> has just made a sincere apology,

I guess maybe you missed this:

>> And by the way, I never intended to shoot
>> at the net roots with my initial post. I am
>> simply an “elitism hating” Southern Democrat

In the middle of "apologizing" he has to take time out to remind us that he is a real man of the soil - not like us "elitists".

Cranky

Posted by Eric
June 11, 2007

"...let’s start with the racial wedges that the Republicans have used against us."

No, how about we start with the regional wedges that the Republicans have used against us, like the notion that the Democratic Party is composed of elite, effeminate, fancy-pants Big City snobs who hold rural America and the South in contempt.

Do you think it makes sense for Democratic consultants like yourself to be driving this wedge?

Seriously, Mudcat: what do you think it does to the Democratic Party's brand when you, a Democratic consultant, promote the idea that large swaths of the Democratic Party hate people from the South?

Are you open to the possibility that your financial interests as a consultant conflict with the interests of Democrats who want their party to be competitive in all 50 states, including rural America and the South? Could it be that the business of selling political protection to Democratic candidates who don't want to be viewed as Bubba-hatin' Libruls creates incentives for you to promote negative GOP stereotypes about the Democratic Party?

Let's start with that.

Posted by amberglow
June 11, 2007

Or does the not being racist part conflict with getting white Southerners to vote Democratic?

This isn't about you, or people calling you names. This is about the priorities of some if not many of the people you're paid to get to vote Democratic, and what compels them now to vote GOP. This is about their issues. Their issues are a large part of why they don't vote for us, and they're coddled and enabled and encouraged by the GOP. Are we supposed to do that too?

Most importantly--We'd also like to hear a lot more--much much more--about those rural folks who aren't "bubbas", but are already rural, loyal, and Democratic -- and black. What's being done to fight all the new voter id requirements and impediments being put in place all over the South? What's being done about improper deletion of minorities on voter rolls all over the South? ...

Posted by arch stanton
June 11, 2007

"I am simply an “elitism hating” Southern Democrat who loathes the stereotypes that have been placed upon me and my neighbors. "

As a redneck ideology hating Northern Democrat who loathes the stereotypes that have been placed upon me(by the GOP, Karl Rove and you) and my neighbors, I accept, but I will never, ever support John Edwards from here on out.

"In the South, where most of us have a huge affection for the Almighty, we’re beginning to see racial wedges as what they are…dividing God’s children."

Wow, and it only took what? A couple hundred years? Outstanding!

"that’s not to say that we believe the right side didn’t win the war. "

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to ask for some polling data on that Muddy.

"On race, I say it’s time to hit the Republicans straight on. When they use race-baiting to divide God’s children, let’s call them on it. It’s now been 27 years since Lee Atwater introduced one of the most effective great lies in political history—the “Welfare Queen”. Yet we have not even hit that one in the mouth."

It's time? WTF do you think we've wanted to do all this time? Its you centrist DLC types that call foul when we do. Tough talk from the 'lets not criticize Bush at the convention because Americans really like him and wanna have a beer with him' crowd. Day late, dollar short. You and people like you are the problem, not the solution.

Posted by the Liberal Democratic Party of the USA
June 11, 2007

Mudcat

Elections , while important only matter in part. The Democrats took congress but the Republiklan party can still filibuster and veto and not much progressive legislation has gotten passed.

Why wait for 2008 when you can take the fight to companies that give money to the REPUBLIKLAN Party.

Click on the name to the left and it will show you my strategy to take back America from the REPUBLIKLAN party.

Posted by Billy Bova
June 11, 2007

well, i hate to say it, but heres the irony with this whole day and with the first thing Mudcat started out saying, that everyone on OUR side would knee-jerk react and come out after him seeking blood! Never mind that he has almost single-handidly forced the National and State Democratic machinery to realize that they need to reach out to the culture of rural America if they want to WIN. Seems a lot on our side don't value things like proven electoral campaign success in VA helped along TREMENDOUSLY by Mudcats' forcing a focus on the rural vote. i hope that everyone has vented today and had their fun blasting Mudcat, now he can return to doing what he does best, WIN elections for Democrats!

Posted by amberglow
June 11, 2007

and what Eric said so perfectly.

Posted by mojo
June 11, 2007

LOL

Nice few introductory posts there. I'd say you've been 'leading with your chin', but it's entertaining if nothing else.

As a Boston area guy, I'm getting a kick out of all the hurt feelings about the regional stereotypes. We listen to the GOP demonize MA at every turn, including 'one & done & run' Romney, as we watch NH turn Blue! Go figure.

As far as race relations in the South go, I'll take your word for it, but did you happen to see Borat?
Just pulling your leg there, feller, I know that was only make believe.

Posted by The Liberal Democratic Party of the USA
June 11, 2007

Oh and I consider George W Bush the 3rd president of the confederacy. Actually I consider him a connecticut yankee in Jefferson Davis' Court and he plays up his Charlie Manson accent to pander to dumb white conservative confederates.

Posted by amberglow
June 11, 2007

"...Mainstream Democrats also bristle at Saunders' take on the Confederate flag -- he says it's possible to promote the Confederate flag and racial equality at the same time -- although that was a battle he ultimately lost with his editor at Simon & Schuster, who omitted the flag chapter from the book. ..." -- http://www.roanoke.com/extra/wb/57298

Yup--we know what symbols of hate and oppression are. We know what they mean. A Confederate flag, a noose in a high school courtyard--all racist. The people they are even today used against are all Democrats, and we stand with them. What's your excuse?

Posted by zota
June 11, 2007

I'd like you to talk about the increasingly Hispanic population in the rural South. The "Immigration debate" is cover for the racist reaction to this changing demographic. Exactly how are your Bubba notions of sacred Southern culture are going to help?

Posted by Crust
June 11, 2007

What Bryan said.

Re 'It’s now been 27 years since Lee Atwater introduced one of the most effective great lies in political history—the “Welfare Queen”. Yet we have not even hit that one in the mouth.'

The "welfare queen" meme and the welfare issue in general just don't work for Republicans any more, not like they used to anyway. Bill Clinton probably deserves the lion share's of the credit on that one. But anyway I'm not sure that's the one Democrats need "to hit...in the mouth." It doesn't seem that current or that charged anymore.

More to the point is the "limousine liberal" meme that the conservatives and the press love. That one does need to be hit in the mouth. And you should know that well since you're on Edwards' team. Somehow the fact that Edwards is a rich guy and yet cares about poverty is somehow seen as hypocritical. Yet the fact that Romney is an even richer guy and wants tax cuts for the rich and whatnot is somehow unproblematic. If anything, the opposite should be the case. Krugman took that one on nicely in today's NYT, comparing your candidate to FDR (another rich guy who wanted to do something for the poor and the middle class).

Of course, before we hit it in the mouth we need to stop promoting it ourselves. That means not making snide opera references as if was only rich Democrats and not also rich Republicans do elitist things like go to the opera. But you already apologized, so I'll drop that part.

Posted by Jim
June 11, 2007

Thanks for the apology (even if it was late and more than a little of the "I'm sorry if you're upset" variety).
I am a secular humanist, an agnostic (a doubter, not an unbeliever); I believe in the tenets of Jesus with regard to our obligation to our fellow human beings, especially those who have fewer advantages. I have a PhD in the humanities, read serious fiction and non-fiction (as well as mytery novels and Harry Potter) for pleasure, I enjoy classical music as well as rock and alt-country and I absolutely loathe the stereotypes that have been heaped on people like me for the last twenty years by demagogic political consultants.
I spent the first thirty years of my life in Illinois and the last ten in Colorado, and I absolutely despise the term "heartland", as it is most often used by punditocracy types to describe those places where people are a little more American than other Americans. That is a fundamentally un-American concept.
I also believe this country has strayed dangerously from its Enlightenment roots.

and what Elvis and exhuming McCarthy said, if you're going to talk about evil people who are looking down on you and practicing elitism (saying things like: "I don't know enough about this spying program to defend it, but I know more than the people who are opposed to it, so I support it"), be ready to name names. No more strawmen.

Posted by Adam McGahan
June 11, 2007

I pretty much agree with Elvis Elvisberg. This obsession with elites, elitists, elitism only serves the GOP caricature of Democratic party. We don't need Democrats buying into the frame.

You can hate individual elitists all you want. Most of us probably do. But do not accept and propagate the idea that rich, effete, out-of-touch city-dwellers control the Democratic party or even make up a substantial portion of it. It's a questionable proposition, and it in no way addresses the *ideas* that the Democratic party and liberalism are trying to put forth.

Posted by THOMAS BILLIS
June 11, 2007

Mudcat I hope the world you live has colors.The south votes republican on a racist anti gay agenda.They vote aginst their own best interests to vote that way.Karl Rove was genius at exploiting that.Obviously I was the only one who saw that commercial used against Harold Ford in Tennessee with the white girl saying call me.I guess I was imagining that whisper campaign against John Mccain that he had fathered a black child.Lyndon Johnson said when he signed the civil rights act that the democrats would lose the south for a generation .He was wrong it looks like it might be three generations.Or until they get a book.

Posted by Crust
June 11, 2007

I want to be conciliatory, but I have to say Eric's comment above is dead on.

Posted by Anonymous
June 11, 2007

Mudcat, why do you lump together “The Heartland” and “The South”? There are some pretty profound cultural, demographic and economic differences between the two regions. You need to get past this foolish “coastal cities” vs. “everything else binary”. South Dakota is not Georgia.

Posted by The Liberal Democratic Party USA
June 11, 2007

A north east liberal elitist President saved America from the depression and won world war II.

FDR

Posted by McGarnigle
June 11, 2007

Mudcat,

Not sure if you'll see this, but I read somewhere online that you consider yourself a proud member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans. Is that so?

I'm guessing a lot of netroots (and Dems in general) have a problem with that organization. What do you think about that? Should it be conceivable that a Democratic Vice Presidential cadnidate (just to choose one office) be a member of SCV?

I write these as sincere questions that I think relate to the issue of Dems and the rural South.

Posted by Adam McGahan
June 11, 2007

Oh, right, and Eric said it too. Stop buying into the frame Mudcat. We're not all pseudo-intellectuals just like you're not all hicks.

Posted by amberglow
June 11, 2007

"Obviously I was the only one who saw that commercial used against Harold Ford in Tennessee with the white girl saying call me.I guess I was imagining that whisper campaign against John Mccain that he had fathered a black child."

Exactly, and these are recent examples--this is not history but ongoing GOP strategy. It works. Why is that?

Posted by Jim
June 11, 2007

"There is little, if any, tolerance for racist groups anymore."

Are you familiar with Trent Lott and the Council of Conservative Citizens?

Posted by Ken
June 11, 2007

Mudcat your either a jokester or a liar. Most racist (and the klan is growing in the South) use the ole everybody has a black friend in the south BS to fluff over the racist views of southern people. Will you deny that there are whole towns in the south who's very existence is because of white flight. Until you can bring honesty to the table no one will take you seriously here.

Posted by Anonymous
June 11, 2007

How about Lou Dobbs?

Posted by joe
June 11, 2007

Who, Mudcat? Who among Democrats has been placing stereotypes on you and your Southern neighbors?

C'mon, name names. Candidates, office holders, consultants, prominent bloggers...who? Who are you talking about?

I can spend five seconds Googling and come up with a dozen prominent Republicans who slander people in blue states as treasonous, elitist snobs (hell, I can come up with Democrats who do it, like you), so you should be able to do the same.

Put up or shut up, tough guy. Where's the equivalent of the "Howard Dean freak show" ad coming from the Dems? Where's the "John Kerry eats the wrong sort of cheese on his sub" story?

Name names, Mudcat.

Posted by The Liberal Democratic Party
June 11, 2007

Hello Everyone

Can you say

REPUBLIKLAN party?

Use that name for their party. tell your friends.

Posted by mikel1814
June 11, 2007

And I ask...

Name an elitist. Until I have an example you might as well say "I'm a zombie hating Democrat."

I have no idea what your definition of elitist is. There's lots of talk of God's children, but not much talk of what you're against, outside of scarecrows.

Once you've defined "elitist" by example, I think we'll get a better idea of what your problems are. If it's one big country where southerner's really want to vote for democrats but don't because they share your disgust for metropolitan opera elites, then define them. People pay you to define them because they trust your judgement. Name someone that represents what you hate?

Posted by Bows and Flows of Leftist Crap
June 11, 2007

You work for who?

Oh, the Breck Girl.

Right.

Good luck with that, and those $400 2 Americas rural haircuts.

Posted by jayackroyd
June 11, 2007

"In the South, where most of us have a huge affection for the Almighty"

What the hell does that mean? I was going along okay, and don't have this immediately visceral reaction to you that other people seem to have.

But this just strikes me as wrong. How can you say something like that? It would be appalling for me to say, that here in the north most of us have a deep commitment to rationality, and suspicion for superstition. Where do you get off characterizing your region in such flippant, off the cuff terms?

You wanna put up some numbers, fine. But this kind of thing is content-free.

First off, this notion that you can speak for your region actually feeds the meme that Southerners are somehow different, and have to be handled differently, and that we have to go through people like you to do so. Do you not see that this an extraordinarily condescending view? That it is precisely the view that pollsters who talk about 300 pound tab drinkers or bible toting porch sitters. You reduce people to a stereotype by calling them lovers of the Almighty as much as people do who call them ignorant. (For atheists like me there's overlap there, which is another reason why you might want to retune your message.)

If it's a simple question of loving bluegrass (which I do) or NASCAR (which i despise), then sure, it's smart politics to direct advertising and messaging to reflect NASCAR and bluegrass interests. But that's not the same thing as saying that we need to incorporate the love of God Almighty into a campaign.

And, you know, you may want to consider the possibility that social pressure to get people publicly express the love of God Almighty might lead to some people not, I dunno, actually telling the truth about what they believe. This separation of church and state thing is, IMO, good for everyone.

Posted by amberglow
June 11, 2007

From Orcinus and Pew -- on Hispanics and how they're very Evangelical and anti-gay and anti-choice, yet don't overwhelmingly vote GOP (only 30% for them) -- specifically because of the racism and anti-immigrant and xenophobic stances. http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/06/los-evangelicos.html

Groups like this really are up for grabs--i don't see evidence that yours really are.

"...For instance, nearly half (47%) oppose the death penalty, compared with just 16% of white evangelicals. A similar, and more predictable, departure from white evangelical attitudes is evident on the issue of immigration. While only a minority (33%) of non-Hispanic evangelicals say that immigrants strengthen American customs and values, a solid majority (59%) of Latino evangelicals hold that view. (The comparable figure among Latino Catholics is even higher at 67%.)
Latino evangelicals, along with other Latinos, also hold generally liberal views on economic issues and are more likely to support government programs and sympathize with poor people than are white evangelicals. For example, a large majority of Latino evangelicals favor government-guaranteed health insurance (70% vs. 58% of white evangelicals), and 57% (vs. 42% of white evangelicals) say poor people have hard lives due to lack of government services. Fully 66% of Latino evangelicals say they would rather pay higher taxes for more government services. In sum, Latinos in general, including evangelicals, tend to be big government social conservatives. ..." -- http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=220

What do you promise clients? How? Fill us in.

Posted by Question Authority? QUESTION HILLARY.
June 11, 2007

More bright i-d-ers from Team Tentacles...

= War On Hair Gel

= War On Hawaiian Raised Ear Lobes

= War On Raised Hawaiian Ear Lobes

= War On Martha's Vineyard Whenever Another Unannounced Bimbo Shows Up For Thanksgiving Dinner

= War On The Troops

= War On The Travel Office

= War On The Caucasoids

= War On Mars

= War On Sanjaya

= War On Some Map Of Cambodia Lost By Comrade Kerry Near Pittsburgh

= War On The Lousy Ungated Working Class Neighbors

= War On And Off Depending On The Number Of Loose Interns Currently Being Entertained By Blozo

= War On That Damned Ken Starr

= War Only On Countries That Start With The Letters "B" or "J"

= War On The Borg

= War On Hot Hosie O'Doggie's Firm Lap

= War On Morals

= War On, War On You Crazy Diamond

= War On Multiple Child Families

= War On The Dimes Of Putin, Stalin, Ho, and Castro (or their slaves and sycophants anyway)

= War On The Eves Of Judeo-Christian Holidays

= War On Human Fetuses

= War On History

= War On Thinking Juries

= War On Common Sense

= War On Courage

= War On Reality

= War On The Way Back From Hugo Chavez's Last Lame Blockhead Party

= War On Getting Caught With Your Old White Vichy Flag Up

= War On Airhead Jazeera Channels 5, 7, 9, 11, and 13

= War On Self-Loathing, Myopic, Media Ingrate Liberalism... NOT

Posted by Billy Bova
June 11, 2007

as i "whirled" around the so called "liberal blogesphere", you know, the Democratic leaning side, over the past several hours, i noticed many posts concerning what Mudcat had to say today to our world. many commenters were asking and calling on Mudcat to come forth and identify the Democrats that show disdain for the southern rural culture. well, i think now we know who many of these people are by reading the names after many of the comments made. sometimes it does one good to look into the mirror!

Posted by Question Authority? QUESTION HILLARY.
June 11, 2007

We will return to 27,000 SQUARE FEET UNDER THE HIPPIE-CRAP CAPITALIST AMBULANCE CHASER RADAR after these other mis-calculations...

Number of pine trees felled to make way for my 2 Americas Mega-Mansion = 3 zillion.

Number of cafeteria Catholics running my anti-family blogs = All of them.

Number of Boat People created if I (or Hillary, or Obama, or Chavez) somehow stumble into getting elected POTUS in 2008 = Around 40 million, give or take a Turk.

Number of New Orleans residents I actually know not to be trial lawyers = Sorry, don't regularly corresponded with anyone from Louisiana not a trial lawyer.

Number of non-union jobs I've killed in North Carolina = Most of them.

Number of jobs I have created at 3rd world hair gel factories = 146.

Number of ICBM launch parties I plan to attend in Pyongyang and Tehran = What's an ICBM?

Number of OB-GYN clinics I've helped to close in the United States = Too numerous to count in this time zone.

Number of people that really call me a friend (leftist loon campaign contributors excepted) = ZIPPO.

Number of times I've been re-elected Senator from North Carolina = See above.

Number of times I will wag my thumb, ala B.J. Boy = At least seven times before my next free lunch.

Days until I start playing the race card, pitting Obama against Hillary = Last week in NOLA.

Number of months I've served in our nation's brave and proud military = You must be joking! Sorry, I meant At Least As Long As Chelsea, Hillary, Obama, and Barney Frank.

More semi-truth here soon, ya'll!

Posted by Mitt Romney, Varmit Hunter
June 11, 2007

I think Mr. Mudcat makes some wise points!

Posted by Question Authority? QUESTION HILLARY.
June 11, 2007

Dateline Damascus...

We shrill, strident, supposedly academic liberals keep retro-yapping "We're for the troops, just against their mission" (of seeking actual instead of pretend peace, and freedom, and schools, and soccer, and voting, and cellular networks, and open hospitals, and closed torture chambers).

Proof? Why heck-fire, more than a Kennedy family cookout on Cape Crap for St. Drunkard's Day!

= We loon leftists spend 99.96% of our Pell Grantee time dragging up a 6-pack of misfit rednecks at Abooboo Grape, and state that's the undeniable SOP for the greater U.S. military membership - but we're really for the troops.

= We claim Gitmo is a disgrace (never mind there were more suicides in San Fransisco last week than in all the terror scum brigs combined in the last 3 YEARS) - but we are still for the troops.

= We say CBS, ABC, NBC, PBS, CNN-Time-Turner, and Airhead Jizzera have every right to video-enable terrorism 24-7 with stunning HD clarity (soon involuntarily required by law in all non-cable rural venues) - but we are still for the rural troops.

= The VA and Walter Reed indeed lack a host of specialty workers, medical to research to management, and we Do As I Tell, Not As I Do liberal hacks yet again refuse to serve, even there - but say we are still really almost for the troops.

= Our whining, spoiled Blue State private ivy college campuses (that otherwise glibly accept all available federal funding) refuse to allow American Army recruiters near their $45,000-a-year tuition camels, for fear of upsetting the local tenure cart - but we are still just for the troops.

= Hillary Clixon, Skimmy Edwards, and Obama Chavez aim high to split the Guard & Reserves politically if not socially and militarily from the regular armed forces - but we are still for the troops.

= Fancy Leftosi requires a brand spanking new Air Force 757 to haul her skinny azz to DNC campaign events in Marin County, along with family & friends, while real real deal warrior families have to fly coach to West Germany to meet their field battled political media pawns - but we plead we are still always for the troops.

We also have some fresh waterfront property in New Orleans you might like - if you still stupidly think that the loon left IS (or ever really was) for the troops.

Smell you at the monthly whine & cheese MeetUp!

Posted by jayackroyd
June 11, 2007

"You're part of the Democratic establishment, beltway insider, consultant class. Maybe you disagree with that characterization. But certainly, within the blogosphere, that's how you're going to be perceived. You're Bob Shrum with a southern accent"

fwiffo, you're, as far as I can tell googling and recalling, completely off base here. The last thing the beltway insiders want is [irony meant in jest and not seriously] some goober from rural virginia gumming up their messaging [/IMIJANS].

This is not a one or the other thingamabob. It's worth paying attention to the notion that there is much in common between essentially disenfranchised urban poor, and essentially disenfranchised rural poor. Neither gets good internet access. Both have systemic health problems that aren't addressed well by the current system.

What's getting you is mudcat's purposeful poking at you. He's trying to be provocative. If you're a charitable person, you might say he's being like Noam Chomsky--he's saying outrageous things in order to make you think through your assumptions and your core beliefs. If you're being uncharitable, you might think that he's being self-promotional, like Larry the Cable Guy or Michael Moore. His bit is meant to irritate you, and, lo, it does.

So I still don't know how serious he is. We've got a few more days to see. But he's doing way better than Armey, I have to say.

But, ana, please, can we have David Sirota or Eric Alterman or somebody else coherent from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. I'd ask for Dean, who is actually pretty centrist, but he's too damned busy.

Posted by Question Authority? QUESTION HILLARY.
June 11, 2007

Having problems dissecting Clinton Spiel from Obama Camp from Edwards Prattle from Cronkite Croaking? Here's some help...

Anti-War: Anti-victory, anti-military (particularly the United States military), anti-democracy, anti-Israel, anti-female education, anti-actual employment, anti-human marriage, anti-pay back your overdue college loan Bruce, anti-shoes, anti-baseline personal hygiene. Not to be confused with true peace and actual justice, at any moment in human history.

Bigot: Any person that freely attends the church or temple of their choice.

Blogger: If with former Senator Skimmy Edwards campaign? See BIGOT, above.

BLT: Bacon, lettuce, and tomato sandwich (may optionally use mutton for bacon, with similar results). Properly applied to lightly toasted sourdough bread with mayo, it is widely believed to be heaven on earth. May be the key to world peace, if not your own flame-throwing DNC political hack Global Gutter. See EGG SALAD on wheat, as an acceptable substitute if no sacrilegious celery is used.

Diversity: More than one narcissistic Mommy or Daddy living in the same household. Also see MARIN COUNTY.

Halfbright: Maddie (also see CRATER, JIM BOB).

Hate speech: See DEAN, HOWARD.

Homophobia: Safe, effective, politically incorrect antidote for heterophobia.

Justice: Getting back to your Seattle luxury condo from the Earth 1st Soup & Salad MeetUp in time for the 4 o'clock CW re-run of Will & Grace.

Mother Jones: Never heard of him.

NOW: Flailing, fictional PBS series that affords PBS staffers the publicly funded PBS monies to pay the private PBS re-hab bills for their adult PBS stoner kids.

Oral sex: Purely redundant Blue State massage obligation for post-graduate, pre-law license revocation studies.

Oscar ceremony: When some guy named Oscar has a ceremony.

Peace: Use of a special prosecutor or Human Lefts Watch lawyer to harass working Republicans.

Penis: Allah's worst invention, after the vagina.

Petra Kelly: Last known leftist to hold an actual day job. Also see FRANCO, FRANCISCO and GERMANY, FORMER EAST for similar political results.

Pinprick: Lowest common legal denominator for stellar 4-month liberal war hero's GET ME HOME NOW, DADDY medal qualifiers.

Sven Ifill Tower Records: Tall, empty, soul-less shell of a fading leftist archival media lieberry found in Paris, France, with a rather unreasonable facsimile version in Washington, DC. Publicly funded, less speaking fees.

Ugly Truth: See GEFFEN, DAVID.

Unilateral Surrender: Core DNA sample results from most American liberals of post-Truman appeasement era (also see KENNEDY, FONDA, HAYDEN, MCGOVERN, CASTRO, CHAVEZ, LETTERMAN, LENO, UNCLE HO for related details before purchase).

More here soon!

Posted by amberglow
June 11, 2007

mudcat, what's your thinking on this?

"... Green says that both suburbs and rural areas are the next frontiers for hate crimes, partly because the demographic change is beginning to hit there now, "and they will lack the political will to deal with it." ... " -- http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/02/eliminationism-in-america-x.html

Posted by sab
June 11, 2007

I'm a Democrat in Ohio, and I think a huge part of how Sherrod Brown won his Senate seat from Mike deWine was John Edwards work in Appalachian Ohio during the Kerry campaign. Sherrod Brown is a remarkable politician, but he hadn't run statewide in ten years. He helped Kerry a lot, but his work for Kerry certainly was rewarded in 2006, and Edwards certainly did some groundwork.

I don't want to jump into the middle of the blog war between Mudcat and the coastals, but most of the country is not coastal, and we need to listen to the other elements if we want to win. Only a third of the country is hard-core Democratic. Everyone else has to be persuaded.

In Ohio in 2006, the only Democrat running for statewide office who lost appealed entirely to the inner city, and ignored everyone else who supported her (the Auditor candidate, who's lame campaign did not reflect her actual abilities, talents and accomplishments). The Senator (Sherrod Brown), the Governor (Ted Strickland) and the AG (Marc Dann) maintained the urban/suburban/rural balance and they all won. The country is pretty diverse, and if you write-off one segment, you may well be writing aff whole states you never even considered (write off the South and you just lost half the midwest as well.)

Mudcat: just ignore the trolls and aim your discussion at the commenters and lurkers who are likely to be listening to you. It's disheartening for the rest of us when you waste all your efforts arguing with folks who are hostile, when there are others who might be reading your posts without posting rude comments.

Posted by Jimmy Crater, Liberal Genius
June 11, 2007

Your boy Edwards is SCUM.

Get a day job, and get a life.

Posted by Cranky Observer
June 11, 2007

> If you're a charitable person, you might say he's
> being like Noam Chomsky--he's saying outrageous
> things in order to make you think through your
> assumptions and your core beliefs. If you're being
> uncharitable, you might think that he's being
> self-promotional, like Larry the Cable Guy or
> Michael Moore. His bit is meant to irritate you,
> and, lo, it does.

The problem is that if he is representing Edwards to the entire nation, neither of those tactics is acceptable.

Cranky

Posted by amberglow
June 11, 2007

"This is not a one or the other thingamabob. It's worth paying attention to the notion that there is much in common between essentially disenfranchised urban poor, and essentially disenfranchised rural poor. Neither gets good internet access. Both have systemic health problems that aren't addressed well by the current system."

But these disenfranchised groups have entirely different priorities, especially when it comes to voting, it seems. The urban poor don't vote against their interests all the time. The urban poor don't respond to racist "dog whistles" and slurs and fearmongering. ...

Or maybe it's just entirely different approaches that appeal to them, and entirely different demands of government? Why do some respond to fearmongering and terrorizing and "us" v. "them" talk, instead of jobs and economy and outsourcing and healthcare and food and product safety, etc?

Posted by Southern Senator Acreage
June 11, 2007

"...the rural liaison for John Edwards..."

What, you got stuck 'splainin to the poor NC neighbors why their property taxes just went through the roof to help cover the cost of road work to & from un-electable former Senator Softener's dead tree plantation?

Good gig!

Posted by Jay Rosen
June 11, 2007

Political Blogging 101: If you shoot at a group of people without linking to any, then a much larger group of people will feel shot at, and start shooting at you-- usually with stereotypes. You'll then by tempted to shoot back at them with, "hey, I didn't shoot at you." Not linking lets you get away with not thinking about who you're shooting at. 0r stereotyping.

Posted by amberglow
June 11, 2007

"most of the country is not coastal, and we need to listen to the other elements if we want to win. Only a third of the country is hard-core Democratic. Everyone else has to be persuaded."

Most of the population is in fact coastal and along the edges of the country, and in or near a large metropolitan area. Most voters are as well.

Posted by ANorth CarolinaVoter
June 11, 2007

Thank you, Mudcat. You have now managed to sway my support away from the man I supported in both his Senate race and President/VP race. Even in this post, where you try so hard to fight the plague of racism, you have managed to stoke the fire of your hatred for a large part of the liberal base, your so-called "Metropolitan Opera Wing," that had prior been overwhelming in both fundraising and publicity for the Edwards campaign. It's appalling, really.

Posted by amberglow
June 11, 2007

From the other post:
"America is a metropolitan nation, and is
becoming more so every year. In 1990, more than
one-half of all Americans lived in metro areas
with more than 1 million people. By 2000, the
majority lived in suburbs of these metro areas.
As a result, in 2001, just 19.8 percent of
Americans lived in non-metro areas, down from
21.8 percent in 1980 and 44 percent in 1950."

http://www.ndol.org/documents/rural_economy_0204.pdf.

Posted by Question Authority? QUESTION HILLARY.
June 11, 2007

"A north east liberal elitist President saved America from the depression and won world war II."

....

Yeesh.

FDR was dragged kicking (from his pre-class-action-era wheelchair) & screaming to the fray by WINSTON CHURCHILL.

The democrat party of the 30's and 40's was chock-full of racist isolationists that simply wanted to forget Hitler, forget Poland, forget Chamberlain, forget, forget, forget.

Not very much unlike the DNC of today, when it comes to confronting pure evil and pandering populist pinhead domestic socialist stupidity.

Oh well.

HAIR GEL HAPPENS.

Posted by amberglow
June 11, 2007

The Agony Of Democratic Victory For Concern Trolls -- http://mydd.com/story/2007/6/11/14168/5463 --
"...Now that we have started winning elections, so it has become more difficult for certain Democratic consultants to play concern troll and make arguments that Democrats must cater to your consultant specialty in order to (increase your client base and media presence) win elections. Yet, that is exactly what "Mudcat" Saunders does in his latest foray into public dialogue at Time: ..."

Posted by FARC U.
June 11, 2007

Yo, Mudflap.

I'm a fat lazy slacker with self-generated diabetes, genital warts, a collapsed nasal wall, and meth teeth.

When does the universal health care kick in?

Posted by Dave
June 11, 2007

I can spend five seconds Googling and come up with a dozen prominent Republicans who slander people in blue states as treasonous, elitist snobs (hell, I can come up with Democrats who do it, like you), so you should be able to do the same.
Put up or shut up, tough guy. Where's the equivalent of the "Howard Dean freak show" ad coming from the Dems? Where's the "John Kerry eats the wrong sort of cheese on his sub" story?
Name names, Mudcat.
-joe
Hear, hear. Of course, I can think of at least one example: a guy who anonymously wrote a book insinuating that a Southern Democratic president was a liar without any set values who impregnates a teenage babsitter. Did they ever figure out who wrote that book, Mr. Saunders?

Anyway, the problem is getting people to recognize racism (beyond the obvious varieties). People don't like to do this, because once you start, you soon realize just how deep-rooted racism is. This problem is magnified once the people you accuse of racism are the people that we've voted for (giving our tacit support to said politician).
The biggest problem of all is, as the show "Avenue Q" said (if I quote a Broadway show, what does that make me, Mr. Saunders?) "everyone's a little bit racist." There are two responses to this: either try to recognize racism in yourself when it rears its ugly head or ignore it. I don't know any segment of the country where a substantial amount of the people won't ignore problems until they're staring them in the face. Unless we can hand the voter clear, obvious proof of the racism of politician X (aka Senator Allen), we'll have trouble "playing the race card" as our Republican friends would call it.

Posted by Riesz Fischer
June 11, 2007

QUESTION HILLARY, I don't think you and your fellow lizard brains have been doing a very good job of governing the last few years!

Any predictions for 2008? Which party will win the Whitehouse? Gain seats in both houses of congress?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by dani
June 11, 2007

What is sorely ironic about everybody getting so angry at mudcat is.. this is someone who worked harder than anybody to get Jim Webb elected--turning the balance of the senate to democrat..

ANDDDDDDDDDDDD...he was one of the first people on the scene to give the credit to... who??? the bloggers of course.

http://www.baconsrebellion.com/Issues06/06-26/Blogology.php
Speaking on the impact of blogs on Webb’s electoral success, “Mudcat” Saunders, a top Webb adviser said, “The bloggers were driving this.”

Posted by Blackacre
June 11, 2007

Mudcat, here's some of the crap we had to hear in 2004 from the NASCAR voter that we have to try to win over. Here's Darrell Waltrip:

"I believe that, you know, you've got to be a good, honest person, you've got to have integrity and all those good things in order to be a president. And George W., our president, current president, meets all that criteria. He's a man's man. When he shakes your hand, he looks you in the eye and you know that you can believe him and you know you can trust him."

"The president's an honest, hard- working -- he cares about America."

"I've heard him say a million times the hardest thing a commander in chief has to do is send people into war. And I know he feels that way. He doesn't -- that's not lip service. And the president, he never -- he talks the talk, he walks the walk."

"George Bush is a straight shooter. And that's why people like him. He communicates with people like me. He looks me in the eye. He tells me the truth."

"I don't know where John Kerry's coming from. I'll tell you the difference in the two. John Kerry's got a mansion in Nantucket. George Bush has a farm in Crawford, Texas. That's the difference."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0410/19/ip.01.html

Bush is a hard-working guy that has a farm in Texas and who will look you in the eye. What a joke. I doubt every person in the South fell for Bush's fake persona, but a lot of them must have.

Posted by Jim
June 11, 2007

Posted by Billy Bova
June 11, 2007
**[...] many commenters were asking and calling on Mudcat to come forth and identify the Democrats that show disdain for the southern rural culture. well, i think now we know who many of these people are by reading the names after many of the comments made. sometimes it does one good to look into the mirror!**

gee, I can tell from your exclamation point that you think you've just made a killer argument there, but... no, not really.

Posted by G M R
June 11, 2007

Was a Edwards supporter. Solid as could be I thought. Not any more. Not one cent or ounce of energy will go to him. I have a f**king PhD and am on the coast. Go to hell.

Posted by Anonymous
June 11, 2007

Mudcat: you do realize what you've done today, don't you?

Have a drink, my friend.

Posted by JGabriel
June 11, 2007

Mudcat: "Since I offended so many of you, I obviously did a poor job of communicating my feelings. I apologize…no buts."

Thank you. And very commendable, by the way. Now we can move on.

Posted by mudshark in your mythology
June 11, 2007

"Now That I Have Your Attention..."

You are hilarious.

An eedjit walks into a bar and shouts:

"All you people are jerks!"

After getting the crap kicked out of him, he picks himself up off the floor, dusts himself off and says:

"Now That I Have Your Attention..."

Go away, you moron. And take that ponce Klein with you.

Posted by FARC U.
June 11, 2007

Yo, Mudhen.

I'm still a fat lazy slacker with self-generated diabetes, genital warts, a collapsed nasal wall, and meth teeth. And now I've got some itchy AIDS from the men's club spa, apparently.

When does that No Questions Asked universal health care kick in that you've been promising, along with every other lefty loon under the lib hack Cuban weather vane?

I'm goin fast, Mudhen!

Save old me from me, Mudhen!

Posted by Foghorn T. Leghorn
June 11, 2007

Mudcat: Gee, I didn't mean to crap on your rug. Now, how about you listen to me and my sage advice.

Just because I haven't got the brains to keep from insulting half of my boss' supporters, right out of the gate, doesn't mean I'm not a brilliant strategist. C'mon, don't you want a shoot-from-the-lip kind of guy like me, hanging around the oval office, dispensing more sage advice, and yes, occasionally crapping on the blue rug? Geez, it's a slam dunk! I belong in the West Wing!

And I'll be sure to bring along a lot of other brilliant strategists, many of whom wear cool hats just like me. We hate elitists. We can detect them by the fact that they disagree with us. I'm not like that Carville fella who begs for leniency for Scooter. No, I'm not like him at all. See, he's bald, and I wear this hat. We're very different.

Me: Gee, I don't know. This pound of wet leather is beginning to look comparatively sharp...

Posted by javelina
June 11, 2007

Thank you for the apology, which comes across as totally insincere, but hey.

Look, I live in Manhattan and work in the arts and when I can afford to I attend the Metropolitan Opera. My son's godfather WORKS at the Metropolitan Opera (he's in the stagehands' union, which is pretty butch, actually). I went to an Ivy League university.

Apparently this makes me the Enemy.

This might be mitigated, in your eyes, by the fact that I also grew up on a farm in a very rural Texas county (pop. 2,000) and attended primary school there. I still eat barbecue, listen to country music, love the rodeo, and go back to hang with friends and family whenever I can. Many of those friends are living on the edge, in terms of their finances. And as arts people, my husband and I are on the freakin' edge, too, urban though we may be. You try handling paying $1,200 a month for healthcare and $1,600 a month for rent on a nonprofit salary and tell me how you do. I don't think I'm divorced from the, uh, zeitgeist of the People - of the Great Heartland of This Great Country of Ours.

So please continue to rethink your position, and come up with a heck of a lot better apology than you have managed to formulate so far.

Okay?

Then I *might* consider sending the $ to John Edwards that I was plannning to this week. Right now I am so furious I am ready to scream. Seriously.

Posted by Bows and Flows of Leftist Crap
June 11, 2007

Has Drudge picked up this thread yet?

The phones must be ringing off the hook at DNC HQ tonight!

Go Mudbath go!

Posted by JGabriel
June 11, 2007

Billy Bova: "Never mind that he [Mudcat] has almost single-handidly forced the National and State Democratic machinery to realize that they need to reach out to the culture of rural America if they want to WIN. Seems a lot on our side don't value things like proven electoral campaign success in VA helped along TREMENDOUSLY by Mudcats' forcing a focus on the rural vote."

That's probably because most of us are more inclined to credit Howard Dean's 50 State Strategy with the 2006 Congressional wins, than we are Mudcat's rural and Southern focus.

Mudcat's been pushing that focus for almost a decade (or more). And it didn't get us anywhere. In fact, it was Dean's 50 State Strategy that achieved Mudcat's goals, racking up unexpected wins all over the Midwest, the Plains, and the Mountain states. What they needed was *resources*, not just a marketing focus.

Which isn't to say I don't think Mudcat has some interesting insights to add. I'd like to hear him out and judge for myself.

But I also like to give credit where credit is due, and I strongly suspect Dean is more responsible for the wins in 2006 than Mudcat, although I'm sure Mudcat did creditable work on Webb's campaign.

Posted by Southern Senator Acreage
June 11, 2007

Mark you calendars, demlix.

That loud swirling sound you hear IS another tainted Edwards bloooooooooooger flushing his plastic boss's 2008 campaign right down the old DNC crapper.

And to think what real good might have been done with all that haircut money.

Nice job!

Posted by LnGrrrR
June 11, 2007

Mudcap,

I'd like to say thank you for apologizing. Muchos gracias! Apology accepted.

To comment on what the person above said about the 'limousine liberal' meme... why is it that conservatives will always say that they don't have to serve in the Army to be a warhawk, but you can't be concerned about poverty unless you're giving away 90% of your income to the homeless?

As far as the comments about Strawmen... I'll assume that it was just that, and that you said it without thinking. We all do such, so I'll give you a pass, since you seem to be actually be listening to the audience and want to interact. You've done more interaction than any of the other bloggers in a short time, I'd say, which is a good mark on you.

Posted by mudshark in your mythology
June 11, 2007

"God, guns, gays, and race."

Let me give a digital cluebat, mudflaps, and these people are right. Most of like Edwards, but you blow chunks.

God, guns, gays, and race.

God.

Keep her in church where she belongs and we got no problem.

Guns.

Love 'em. How else are you gonna shoot Republicans and other RWAuthoritarians?

Gays.

They're here, they're queer. What do you care? It's not contagious.

Race.

What about it, cracker?

Dude, you are so far behind the curve it's pitiful

Posted by kbanginmotown
June 11, 2007

Mudbat scorecard:
Opening Post: 1-God Bless & 1-Go to Hell.
Latest Post: 1-God, 1-Almighty, 3-God's Children

That's right, when he's pointing the fingers, demonizing, and stereotyping, it's all fire and brimstone. But, when the criticism is firing back at him, let's remember that we are all God's children.

Sheesh.

Posted by Anonymous
June 11, 2007

I really throw up my hands.

I really am one of those elitist, Metropolitan Opera (as in Lincoln Center in NYC) goers that Mudcat was insulting, and I gotta tell you, I revel in it. If being non-elitist gets us Dubya, I'm all for elitism.

Course, I grew up in Illinois, not Chicago, but a town whose margins were surrounded by farms. My grandfather was a farmer, and rumour (oops, too elitist), rumor had it, went to some Communist party meeting, because in his day, that's what most of the farmers around him did. At least that is what he said. Guess there are some liars in the Midwest, part of real America.

I was, in my youth, an avid church goer. Of course, I made the mistake of being baptised a Catholic, then attending church at a Presbyterian church. See, my parents were an inter-religious couple, back in the '40s, and all us chillun were promised to the Catholic church.

But, considering my blasphemous origins, I must admit, in all humility, I was probably the valedictorian of my Sunday school class.

However, if I have to suck up to the Southern Democrats by hearing God this and God that, and we're all God's children, I am going to puke, 'cause you know what, I'm one of God's children too. This is not religion, this is heresy. You can allow your religion to inform your decisions; I can allow the ethics of my religious background to inform my decisions. Keep your religion to yourself. I don't want to talk about it and I don't want to hear about it.There is an establishment clause in the Constitution of the United States of America.

Posted by JGabriel
June 11, 2007

I see QUESTION HILLARY is back.

Good.

Posted by anon
June 11, 2007

There's a problem with your logic here, Mudcat. If there aren't a lot of racists left, racial wedges souldn't work. "Welfare queen" shouldn't carry any power.

Maybe, just maybe, racism's been transmuted into something else, something coded, and it only manifests itself through this code. Code like "welfare" or "crime."

Posted by JGabriel
June 11, 2007

It was revealed in the thread for Dick Armey's post, "Why Do Liberals So Stridently Oppose Choice and Ownership?", that QUESTION HILLARY is, get this:

A Republican cookbook writer who pays for sex.

From the thread:

A. QH is a cookbook writer:

Anonymous: "I bet QH would even go a-book burnin' with DICK [ARMEY] ..."

QUESTION HILLARY: "Actually, I've been published, twice."

Anonymous: "I always wondered who wrote the Turner Diaries. Or was it the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?"

QUESTION HILLARY: "Unless those are cook books, keep wondering."

B. QH pays for sex:

QUESTION HILLARY: "No, we don't need to stick to formula - but a goal of sorts may help, short or long-term. Mine would involve hookers on a raft at sea, but that's just me."

JGabriel: "It is interesting to note that even in QH's sex fantasies, he still has to pay for it."

QUESTION HILLARY: "I understand that paying your own way IS truly a liberal nightmare, but thanks for playing."

JGabriel: "For sex? Wow. *SO* glad I don't live in your world."

Please keep this in mind when assessing QH's credibility: A Republican cookbook writer who pays for sex.

Keep your freak flag flyin', QH!

http://time-blog.com/swampland/2007/06/why_do_liberals_so_stridently.html

.

Posted by Anonymous
June 11, 2007

I love The Kinks:

Man made the buildings that reach for the sky
And man made the motorcar and learned how to fly
But he didn't make the flowers and he didn't make the trees
And he didn't make you and he didn't make me
And he got no right to turn us into machines
He's got no right at all
'Cause we are all God's children
And he got no right to change us
Oh, we gotta go back the way the good lord made us all

Don't want this world to change me
I wanna go back the way the good lord made me
Same lungs that he gave me to breath with
Same eyes he gave me to see with

Oh, the rich man, the poor man, the saint and the sinner
The wise man, the simpleton, the loser and the winner
We are all the same to Him
Stripped of our clothes and all the things we own
The day that we are born
We are all God's children
And they got no right to change us
Oh, we gotta go back the way the good lord made
Oh, the good lord made us all
And we are all his children
And they got no right to change us
Oh, we gotta go back the way the good lord made us all
Yeah, we gotta go back the way the good lord made us all

And this Anonymous agrees with the other Aanonymous: we don't need to start aping the Republican "God" talk. There's entirely enough of that, as there is.

Posted by JGabriel
June 11, 2007

QH also likes to engage in race-baiting rhetoric, and make fun of the disabled. Though that's not so much funny (like "A Republican cookbook writer who pays for sex"), as it is appalling.

A. QH engaging in race-baiting:

Terrapin: "Conservatives do not want a 'shareholder' society; they want a 'sharecropper' society."

QUESTION HILLARY: "Turtleneck, just drink your Black Label, and watch the Oreos blow another one, eh?"

B. QH making fun of the disabled:

QUESTION HILLARY: "Ha ha! Just kidding! I'm on SSI benefits right now!"

.