Just Wondering...

I sure hope not! I'm guessing that there will be a lot of interesting questions headed their way. Heck, I'm thinking of getting a web cam for the sole purpose of submitting a question to Romney re his ridiculous statement in the last debate about wanting to "double the size of Gitmo."

I can't wait till September!

There are several contradictions in the GOP tent.I hope those are what get exposed, not for the gotcha factor, just for general information purposes.

Half of Republicans in a recent survey favored universal health care for example.Many of the evangelicals support social services, and environmentalism. You also have paleo-cons who are against overseas adventurism. The candidates should not be allowed to fudge which camp they are in on these issues.

Questions will be heavily filtered and selected for this debate. And CNN gets about as much chance of getting stiffed as you do of not being the most liberal member participating in a roundtable. CNN is the Joe Klien of news: accused of being liberal, but practices Republican to earn their centrist credentials.

As with you, Republicans get the best of both worlds: friendly, polite mainstreaming of their extremism, while playing the victim of your liberal bias.

Joe,
That Republicans would skip a CNN debate would show just how clueless they are. Do you consider CNN a liberal network? If they ever were, they haven't been since Ted Turner sold it to Time/Warner.

Joe, I'd fear YouTube an awful lot more than Tony Snow, who I think emceed the last GOP debate, if I were a GOP candidate.

Also, here's some interesting facts-- any of this make you reconsider anything you wrote yesterday about how to elect Republicans and Democrats? Also, did you catch the story out a day or two ago, that the GOP is filibustering at a record-shattering pace?

"A new Washington Post poll released today conclusively reveals just how widespread the consensus view among Americans has become regarding the Iraq war and the "surge."

"Vast majorities, for instance, disapprove of Bush's handling of the war (31-68); trust the Democrats in Congress more than Bush to handle Iraq (32-55); believe that the Iraq War was not worth fighting (36-63); believe that we should withdraw our forces even if that means civil order is not restored there (39-59); believe that the "surge" has either worsened the situation or made no difference (22-75); believe the "surge" will not improve the situation (34-64); support setting a deadline of next Spring for withdrawal (43-55); support a policy change to focus only on training Iraqi troops rather than fighting insurgents (21-74); believe that Congress, rather than President Bush, should have final say in when we withdraw (31-62); and believe that Democrats in Congress have done too little or about the right amount, rather than too much, to force Bush to change his Iraq policy [too much (17%); too little (49%); about the right amount (31%)]."

Thanks for reading the comments.

This hardly a surprise. Faux Snowjob and the Chorus of Control Freaks. LOL What next, let me guess. ORilemup will probably go off on Nazi 'skin heads' and all those traitors that need to be held accountable for aiding and abetting AQ. Then, the 'True Patriots' of the TASS persuasion will, no doubt, identify YouTubes as really TinkyWinky in disguise. Sham and Limp will be doing a group Parkinson's at warp speed. YADA Noise

So, since Bush didn't watch, does that mean that the Darth Rovian paranoid forces have coalesced, armed for a frontal attack?

Brit Hume, I should have said, not Tony Snow, emceed the last GOP debate.

CNN is a tool network. I think Bernie Shaw used the word "fox-ification" or "fox-ified" to describe its journalistic transformation. Memekiller is right: the filter will be on and dissent will be stifled -- just like at George's public appearances.

Sorry for the cold water Joe but how about last night's responses from local focus groups bucking CNN conventional wisdom. Got to be a real bummer to all those serious journalists and their views on presidential performances.

Yeah, CNN is really worried about bringing us news... that's why I got to see Lindsey Lohan's DUI and how soda is bad for us on the news, and not a peep about Gonzo.

Joe - Please go here:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/7/24/171641/289

This speaks directly to what we were discussing in the previous thread about why the Republicans are obstructing any progress on those non-Iraq-War bills that you and I both want to see passed. The reason that you and I disagree is because you think that the bills are not being passed ecause of something that the Dems are doing or not doing and I think that they are not being passed because the GOP on is track to be the most obstructing Congress in history.

And why is the GOP doing this? So that they can score cheap political points based on lies about the Dem majority. They are trying to sow the seeds of the pox-on-both-houses meme in order to depress voter turnout come election time.

Please let us discuss this point some more. I would greatly appreciate it.

It is time for the neocons to answer to us liberals on YOUTUBE! We will make them fear us and our drive for their IMPEACHMENTS!

I cannot wait to post a question to the neocons.

Joe,

Some people commented that some of the questions actually seemed to come from Republican plants. While there's no doubt that the blogosphere tends a little left, don't think for a minute that the righties won't be submitting videos to the Republican debates. You'll see other voices next time. And you'll see Republicans claiming that some of the questions came from Democratic plants.

We don't need to hear anything any Repuke says other than we are sorry that we illegally invaded Iraq and yes we will support impeachment of Bush and Cheney. Anything else you can take to the little green footballs neonazi site.

Joe

Same thoughts going through my mind. It is kind of like taking your grandmother to a Jay Z concert.

I hope they don't bail though because it will be fun to watch.

Jack Jett

Which reminds me... whose leg do I have to hump on this board to get some troll protection?

LnGrrrR

I don't know - I have been humping them all and I still can't get rid of archie - though if you look at the post I just left in his name it will probably get rid of him forever, I hope.

Arch

I can't wait for you to post a question to the neocons.

Jack Jett

Joe - Forgot to respond to your post.

Bush's allergy to YouTube is consistent with his penchant for party-approved 'Town Hall' audiences and fellatory questioning from friendly reporters, including, and I still cannot believe this, an actual male prostitute dressed up like a memer of the White House Press Corps.

While I have no doubt that Roger Ailes is doing everything he can to guide the GOP candidates to victory I do not see a need for him to do anything extraordinary about this debate format. The questions will be selected so as not to ruffle any feathers (CNN is not capable of standing up to criticism from the right-wing) and the candidates have learned that they can say whatever they want and nobody will call them on it. After all, the whole point of this is entertainment, I mean, edutainment, or journotainment, or something like that. Yes, I really am that cynical...but that doesn't mean I am wrong.

Dude - I am so going to ask them what they are going to do when we impeach them and then I am going to ask them how they would disband the army and return those poor ignorant soldiers to a productive civilian life.

>do you think it's possible that some of the Republican candidates are having second thoughts about participating in their version of the CNN/YouTube debate on September 17?

Mr. Klein,
Yes.
Especially if the first question is "Why did you not show for the NAACP debate?" (See, Mr. Tom Tancredo was the only Republican to show up for that debate on July 12.)

The questions will be screened. The substance of the questions will be identical to any town hall debate.

bartkid - that is because the neocons are racists and hate the NAACP because they want to keep the minortites down. It is up to us as liberals to level the playing field. We MUST elect Obama for at least VP so he can be PResident in 16 and I think we should have President Clinton take Cindy Sheehan as her Secretary of Defense because Mrs. Sheehan will be good at disbanding the army and using whats left of it for UN peacekeeping missions like in Darfur.

Joe, they weren't liberal questioners. They were questions that you knew Democrats would answer. When is the last time the Republicans talked of anything but terror, terror, terror and occasionally lowering taxes? They have no agenda but fear. I hope they are asked the same type of questions in September.

> the general skew of the YouTube audience leeward

Stopped reading polls about three years ago, didn't you?

Me fail English? That's unpossible!

archie stanson = Tom T = QH

Joe:

PLEASE do one thing right ever in your journalistic life and ban archie stanson, SF Beary, Voice of Reason, Elvis, Tom T, Larry, linda, and all the other republican paid shills who have completely destroyed what was once a wonderful place for us liberals to get together to discuss how to impeach the Bushitler. The trolls are so far below us highly educated and intelligent liberals that it is not fair for us to have to deal with their ignorance and uselessness.

Thanks!

Registration and iggy PLEASE!

Question Hillary, grape crush, and I were just debating the relative merits of reviving the use of inherent contempt versus continuing to force the issue through the courts where it really belongs. Is it better to pursue a divisive strategy with some teeth behind it or to strategically support the Constitutional structure of the government with a practically ineffective tactic?

After much consideration, we decided it would be best to forget the whole thing and come troll this blog. Impeach Now, Remember Vince Foster, et cetera et cetera....

Vince Foster, libtards, terror huggers, haircuts, yadda yadda...

Bush prefers TubeSteak Debates, the ones where he whips it out and the media swallow but never spit.

You know, like the debate on invading Iraq.

Joe: "And might there be an Ailes gremlin whispering to the candidates: The Dems stiffed us at Fox. You can stiff CNN.

Hoping I'm wrong about this. I just can't wait to see the Republicans in this format."

Actually I hope you're right. When Edwards (I think he was first) started the ball rolling for boycotting the Fox debate, I was sure some wingnut genius was going to come back with "Oh yeah! See if we'll appear on PBS/NBC/CNN then!", as if that comparison were anything but utterly preposterous.

But so far none of them have been stupid enough to play that card, as while it would be a winning gambit in the primary, it would make the Republican nominee look silly and out of touch in the general. Only in the fever swamps of Outer Wingnuttia does anyone believe that the mainstream media are liberal in anywhere near the degree that Fox is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the GOP.

The comparison between Fox and CNN is what we call a false equivalence in basic logic and writing, Joe. The former is a propaganda outlet; the latter kind of, sort of practices journalism.

CNN is a Republican-friendly platform, like FOX, but liberal by default, like Joe Klien, and therefore a far more effective tool for making uncompromising conservative partisanship conventional wisdom packaged as centrism, like David Broder.

Leeward? Did you spend the weekend yachting w/ Scooter, Cliff May et al? How splendid!

"People like me who favor this program don't yet know enough about it yet. Those opposed to it know even less -- and certainly less than I do."

-Joe Klein on the issue of illegal wiretapping.

"People like me who favor this program don't yet know enough about it yet. Those opposed to it know even less -- and certainly less than I do."

-Joe Klein on the issue of illegal wiretapping.

---------------------

Hilarious. This sounds like W.

Hop, here's some more 'keLine wisdom:

firedoglake.blogspot.com/2006/03/late-nite-fdl-joe-klein-in-his-own_01.html

Posted by arch stanton
July 24, 2007
Hop, here's some more 'keLine wisdom:

firedoglake.blogspot.com/2006/03/late-nite-fdl-joe-klein-in-his-own_01.html

------------------------

That's some funny s h i t. The funniest thing of all is that a lot of that stuff was about 10+ years old, and the Palooka is still writing the same stuff now he was then -- he just recycles his old material like a burned-out standup comedian working for a payday. He's gotten the sh it beat out of him online for as long as he's posted here, but he hasn't seemed to grow a whit, hasn't learned a thing. Just like that quotation above, it reminds me of Bush. Is he that limited, or are there forces involved that make him type the same stuff over and over, because it's what they want him to type?

The GOP stiffed the NAACP sponsored debate (not that you would ever know it, reading Joe Klein. Black people are the folks that carry the cocktail weenies -- their concerns are not the concerns of Joe's DC beltway social circuit peers).

So the Dems stiffed the lying scumbags on FoxNews and got slammed for it. The GOP skips the debate sponsored by the NAACP, and there is media silence about ti....

Why is that Joe? Is it because you and your pundit peers DON'T GIVE A FLYING F*CK ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE, BUT DO CARE ABOUT FAUX NEWS BECAUSE IT PROVIDES YOU WITH FACE TIME ON TV?

Uhh, "leeward" means "downwind," not "leftward."

Hop, Joke made it to his current position, it would seem, through sheer will, and not talent. His prose is inartful and he lacks even a scintilla of skepticism, which would seem to be prerequisite for a journalist or observer of the political scene. I think Joke has been a tool for the DC elites for a long time and probably didn't/doesn't know it. I think his need to be accepted by people he considers important supercedes everything else, and makes him easy game. It's a pretty harsh assessment I know but I can't see any other pathology to explain Joke and his writing. I've posited here that Joke writes serious posts when he's gotten that secret info from someone on high, and snarky dismissive ones when there is no inside source. I think it reinforces somewhat my position about Joke re his need for approval, when he doesn't get it, he tends to lash out.

Your turn archie/QH/Larry.

Posted by arch stanton
July 24, 2007
Hop, Joke made it to his current position, it would seem, through sheer will, and not talent. His prose is inartful and he lacks even a scintilla of skepticism, which would seem to be prerequisite for a journalist or observer of the political scene.

-----------------

I disagree with this, on several levels. First, I think PJ is actually relatively talented. Primary Colors was a pretty good book -- better than about 95% of all books on politics, and even pretty good if you treat it as a work of pure fiction (which it wasn't, but neither is lots of good fiction). I find his prose pretty good; when it gets choppy or tortured, it's either because PJ is intellectually sloppy and lazy -- which he certainly is -- or he's being so dishonest even he is aware of it, and his prose becomes twisted as he tries to cover for his dishonesty. Palooka Joe's problem isn't talent or writing ability (you don't need much by way of writing talent to be a journalist), but rather his enormous ego, his laziness, and his neurotic need to be at the center of things (related to his gigantic ego). Take those things away and he'd be a pretty good journalist. Except...

I also disagree with the notion that skepticism is a necessary ingredient for a journalist. It's certainly necessary for a *good* journalist, but there seems to be a desire on the part of big media to weed out good journalists. And so we have Palooka Joe. I said above that if you take away his manifest flaws Palooka Joe would be a pretty good journalist. But. Without those flaws, which makes his behavior easy to predict and control, nobody in big media would hire him -- he'd be relegated to a local newspaper, or maybe blogging. As much as I have come to despise Palooka Joe (and Trixie Tumulty, and Carnie), in the end they are merely symptoms of a greater problem, and that problem isn't lack of talent.

Hoplite, I've never read PC, so I don't know, but I guess beauty being in the eye of the beholder and all, in my eye his writing is uninteresting. Maybe if there was some actual substance there...I dunno. When I said skeptism was prerequisite for a journalist, good journalism was assumed.

"Without those flaws, which makes his behavior easy to predict and control, nobody in big media would hire him -- he'd be relegated to a local newspaper, or maybe blogging"

True. It doesn't excuse him for being a hack. We make decisions, and those decisions have consequences. Joke chose to be a well paid hack, instead of a blogger or small paper columnist. Now that the world he's operated in is crumbling, and the new paradigm includes a mechanism for direct feedback from the readership, Joke is going to pay for that decision...and he should.

www.joeklein.org is coming this August, don't know if its going to be his site, or a site devoted to taking him down, but it'll be interesting either way.

To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if the republicans don't know how to use You Tube because all they seem to want to do with the internet is outlaw everything on it they find "obscene". If it were up to them, the only videos left on You Tube would be the skateboarding dog and the cat playing piano.

Anyone hoping for any originality or real questions will be grossly disapointed, all the questions will be screened just as they would be during a regular debate. That is why this format just gives the illusion of real questions.

It is always funny to see media stars like Klein and Howie Kurtz cry big crocodile tears about Fox. After all, how are they going to make that Fox money if the Dems refuse to keep being gullible enough to appear on it? Money and prestige is what it is about - but I always like it when they disguise their own greedy little motives with highminded rants about democracy and being fair, oh so fair, to the Fox viewer. That viewer who hasn't made up his - it is usually a his - mind. Who, clutching his copy of Ann Coulter's Treason in one hand and his coors in the other, just might be the kinda guy the Dems should reach out to - maybe with a serious, Trumanesque Defense policy. That's the ticket!

The kabuki theater of 'serious' journalists is winding down, and the honchos sense it, hence the howling and foaming at the mouth.

The You Tube debate was ridiculous.

The event had the atmosphere of a Saturday Night Live skit.

The candidates who I liked most were the ones who appeared as irritated as I was at all of the nonsense.

Do the Republicans really have to do this too?

HOw do you expect the most ignorant President in this country to be on tune with the times(technology).
Poor Geroge started reading some books last year because he wants to save face.
Mr. President, victory does not take 5 years on the making.

What a tremendous waste of electrons this "debate" was. This bunch of jokers are the saddest bunch of candidates running for president I have ever seen in the past 6 elections. None of these folks have a plan to get anything done except get elected. Then what? If this is the best the Democrats can put on the ticket for '08 they really isn't any reason to show up to the polls.

It is way past time for Joe to write that novel he always thought he had in him. The world is sick to death of fake liberals.

Frankly, the fact that you guys can go on about politics, when it is now apparent that the Phoenix Suns were literally robbed of an NBA championship is beyond me.

Kent - exactly. We are sick of the fake liberals and we have far too many in here!

SF Bear, you in here? I miss you much!

Yeah, Joe, CNN is so liberal. That's why they keep referring to our party as the "Democrat Party" by their commentators and writers. The chosen GOP slur. CNN is totally in the bag for us. Totally.

"As Media Matters for America noted, Republicans have employed the word "Democrat" as an adjective to describe things or people of, or relating to, the Democratic Party -- including referring to the "Democrat" Party itself, even though that is not the party's name. The ungrammatical conversion of the noun "Democrat" to an adjective was the brainchild of Republican partisans, presumably in an attempt to deny the opposing party the claim to being "democratic" -- or in the words of New Yorker magazine senior editor Hendrik Hertzberg, "to deny the enemy the positive connotations of its chosen appellation."

I think Joe's probably right that the Republicans will try to back out of this.

What's interesting is that after years of being political luddites, the Democrats seem to doing a better job of making use of technology.

"The Dems stiffed us at Fox. You can stiff CNN."

I've come to think of CNN as somewhat equivalent to Fox. But not in the way Joe is thinking.

When Americans turn away from the satanic liberal agenda, including gay marriage, health care and a higher minimum wage, then we win war on terror. When every AMerican embraces conservative ideals, like sex w/ men in restrooms, sex w/ prostitutes, sex while wearing diapers, sex w/ underage pages and abstinence-only sex education, Jesus H Christ will reward us! He'll bring back slavery! Jesus will make wimmin quit work and back to the stove for her! For the Lord sayeth: "Hark all ye! Verily I say the unions are the work of the Devil!" George W Bush is the bestest preznit ever! He'll defet the terrists! Just like Jack Bauer! Jack Bauer is my hero! He will save us from the liberals! Jack Bauer is a real man! He fights the terrists so I don't have too!!!!!!

The FOX on one side, CNN on the other isn't accurate.

FOX on one side, AL JAZEERA on the other. That seems to be the extremes in news as propaganda.

But I agree with Joe, can't wait to see the Republicans in this format. Please, site pests, put on your best Ann Coulter and upload a video.

Contact me if you want info on the next San Francisco pro-Cindy Sheehan march we are going to have in the next few weeks.

I will be there. Will you show me the whole inflation thing - I'd like to do it too.

Isn't there some bizzarro Young Republican You Tube knockoff they can use instead? Like that wingnut wiki thing? Or is it just called michellemalkin.com?

space,

It is called Qube Tv.

Yeah, Republicans need their own bubble because YouTube is completely open and democratic, which won't prevent exposure to other ideas. As my momma used to say, open your mind up too wide and people throw garbage in.

"...open your mind up too wide and people throw garbage in."

Right, which is why you need Conservapedia to set you straight on your ideas:

****According to the origins theory model used by young earth creation scientists, modern kangaroos are the descendants of the two founding members of the modern kangaroo baramin that were taken aboard Noah's Ark prior to the Great Flood...

After the Flood, these kangaroos bred from the Ark passengers migrated to Australia. There is debate whether this migration happened over land[6] with lower sea levels during the post-flood ice age, or before the supercontinent of Pangea broke apart[7], or if they rafted on mats of vegetation torn up by the receding flood waters...

Other views on kangaroo origins include the belief of some Australian Aborigines that kangaroos were sung into existence by their ancestors during the "Dreamtime" [8]...****

http://www.conservapedia.com/Kangaroo

It would seem that most of the so called enlightened liberals in here have opened their minds so much everything fell out.

Vote for Cindy Sheehan!

I wish I had a Republican who was worthy of voting for so I didn't have to continue to pretend to be a Socialist.
But I need my troll checks

Can someone tell me the difference between

archie stanson

and

arch stanton?

which one had the protest photo link the other day?

jack jett
www.jackejett.com

Not to worry. The Republicans can bring back that gun lover, cradling his "baby," and give him all the love Joe Biden denied him, which has brought down the wrath of Second Amendment bloggers. Maybe he can fire off a few rounds on camera and make the GOP candidates swoon with pleasure.

http://ajliebling.blogspot.com/2007/07/exposing-bad-bad-joe-biden.html

Actual human beings, not pundits, asking the questions? Scary!

But you know, it really says something that non-professionals ask better questions than the MSM. You'd think that would cause the MSM some shame. But no, they have a haircut to ask about!!!!

The only question that matters is WILL THEY IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY and will the IMPEACH THEMSELVES for being Republicans.

Actual human beings asking questions? Um...ok. Hopefully no snowmen ask questions. We're searching for a leader in a dangerous time and someone decides to de-legitimatize the debate by 'You-Tubing' it. Great idea for a debate forum...let's keep it serious.

So, Joe thinks the Republicans get points for showing up.

Joe Klein:

This is obtuse. If Republicans accept the format, they'll demand the questions be pre-screened. Do you think CNN won't oblige?

Christ, p_lukasiak is becoming as bad as QH. AMC is a homophobe because lesbian porn exists somewhere in the world, and Klein burns crosses because p_lukasiak selectively forgets all the stories about the NAACP debate. Wipe the foam off your mouth and take an Ambien or something.

Are you kidding me? Those questions weren't liberal in tone - what about the Democrats raise Taxes question? Or the guy who called the M-4 his baby?

No doubt, the unwatched Clinton so-called "News" Network will select boilerplate "questions" from the Democrat party/Al Qaeda talking points.

The notion that CNN is some sort of leftish counterpart to Fox is ludicrous on its face.

CNN is a pale Fox wannabe these days.

Joe Klein: "..do you think it's possible that some of the Republican candidates are having second thoughts about participating in their version of the CNN/YouTube...?"

Well, yes, if they can't find a way to massage the process by which the debate questions are selected. I'd love to ask the Republican candidates the following:

"Recent polling* has shown that 72% of Americans think that it's time for universal healthcare coverage...What are your plans for getting us there?"

Side note: I understand why Joe Klein thinks talking about universal healthcare is the 'killer app' of campaigning; it polls well, and you have be an uber-free marketeer or an insurance company to dislike the concept...What Klein and others miss is that UHC is not near the forefront of people's minds, and aren't as emotionally invested in the concept as they are with Iraq, partisan politics, and so on.

arché stanson: "Question Hillary, grape crush, and I were...After much consideration...et cetera et cetera..."

Funny; I don't recall that debate. Besides, QH and Spoofer aren't capable of contributing to an intellectually honest debate. If any of their actual positions were defensible or even coherent, we'd have heard them by now...Instead of a lively discussion, all we see are Freeperville rejects trying to destroy yet another online forum by making it unreadable.

*http://www.chwhealth.org/stellent/groups/public/@xinternet_con_sys/documents/webcontent/msys_m068169.pdf

Re: "the general skew of the YouTube audience leeward"

Do you have any evidence or argument that that YouTube audience skews leeward (away from the wind)? Or leftward?

Stiffing CNN, the home of such left wing types as Glenn Beck, that sure sounds like a winning argument for the Republicans.

Anonymous is becoming as bad as QH. Saying Klein doesn't care about black people is synonymous with saying he burnes crosses. Wipe the foam off your mouth and take an Ambien or something.

How come the swamp is so silent on the Gonzales hearing? What the heck is going on??? Is Klein going to stand up for the AG and all the undisclosed spying??

Beth in VA: "How come the swamp is so silent on the Gonzales hearing?"

That's an excellent question. I don't understand why Time -- and the MSM as a whole -- is so averse to this story (and, more generally, oversight of the Bush administration).

An excellent place to go on this is TPMm:
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/

Greenwald writes on AG Gonzales' testimony (link on my handle):

"That Alberto Gonzales is a serial liar -- including when he testifies under oath to Congress -- has been long-established, and few people now bother to dispute it."

Any Swamplanders care to dispute it? Or agree with it? Or do the good folks of Time not care whether or not the top legal officer of the country is continually lying to Congress?

I add my voice to Beth in VA's and Crust's. The Gonzales hearing yesterday was bad even by Gonzales' standards, and yet 'I love illegal surveillance' Joke Line and the rest of the Swamp don't care.

Head on over to Glenn Greenwald at Salon or Anonymous Liberal's blog if you want to hear some analysis of it. Specifically, Glenn calls out Joke Line (again) for being so supportive of an illegal surveillance program that was so bad that Ascroft, Comey, Mueller and almost the entire DoJ leadership threatened to *resign* over it.

TIME and Swampland have the resources to be able to discover the details of that program (since it was shut down years ago, there really is no national security risk), but Joke Line and the others just don't care. Pathetic.

"How come the swamp is so silent on the Gonzales hearing? What the heck is going on??? Is Klein going to stand up for the AG and all the undisclosed spying??"

An even better place to go right now is Balkanization, where you can find links not only the 52 page report of the House Judiciary Committee laying out the reason why the Miers and Bolton subpoenas are necessary, but also a report from the Congressional Research Service detailing the background of Congressional Contempt citations...

Both documents are well worth reading -- which means that Joe, Jay, and Ana Marie won't bother reading them before offering any opinion on today's activities....

but just because they prefer to remain ignorant doesn't mean you have to...

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2007/07/house-judiciary-contempt-report.html

We should impeach the VA leadership and Gonzales and Bush and Cheney and anyone who does not provide us with our right of free nationalized healthcare.

That would solve all our problems.

Except the neocon trolls like QH/arch/Elvis/Larry

grape_crush is arch stanton when he is not archie stanson...

Thanks for proving my prior point, Anonymous.

Crust:

Glenn Beck is the only reason clintoon news network still exists and is barely afloat.

You had a point in all that ranting and raving, grapenuts?

I think it would be hilarious if the Republicans backed out. It would just demonstrate, along with the all white male cast of characters running for the nomination, how far out of touch with the American public the Republicans actually are.

Go for it, gentlemen. Back out. And then we can all have fun with what a bunch of wimps you are--afraid to answer questions from actual Americans.

You have no point but to destroy any productive discussion here, Anonymous.

ImmoderateAmerica, you obviously haven't taken a gander at Glenn Beck's ratings.

And whose sock puppet are you passing gas?

Archie's?
Arch's?
JJ's?
Larry's?
linda's?
mrmd0000'?

Be gone troll!

"Saying Klein doesn't care about black people is synonymous with saying he burnes crosses."

Oh man, what a phenomenally stupid thing for Crust to say. But kudos for taking a retard bullet for the team.

"How to Elect a Republican President (and Congress) in 2008. Posted by Joe Klein. Make impeachment an issue over the next 18 months..."

Let's see how well that's borne out by history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_Divisions_of_United_States_Congresses

1972 election results:
Nixon re-elected President by a wide margin.
Senate: 56 D, 42 R, 2 other.
House: 242 D, 192 R.

August 1974: Nixon resigns in face of certain impeachment by the House and conviction by the Senate.

1974 election results:
Senate: 61 D, 37 R, 2 other.
House: 291 D, 144 R.

1976 election results:
Carter defeats Ford for President.
Senate: 61 D, 38 R, 1 other.
House: 292 D, 143 R.

Let's see. Impeachment is a big issue in 1973 and 1974, and the Democrats improve their margin in the Senate by 5 seats and the House by 50 seats, and win the White House. That impeachment talk sure helped the GOP, didn't it?

You really know how to call 'em, Joe.

Joe Klein as a true liberal loves all people regardless of color. Is crust really one of the handles of the trolls ruining this site and finally let his real intolerant self slip out?

Dear Ann Onymous;

Are you saying that Arch and Archie are also all those other people?

Jack Jett

On the Gonzales hearing: I'm also surprised to see that the Volokh Conspiracy (a libertarian legal group blog) is also silent. And I don't see a lot of reporting in the press. It seems that indifference to whether high officials are lying to Congress is quite widespread among the commentariat.

Could you imagine if it were Janet Reno lying to congress?

Anonymous, your "retard bullet" is directed at your own foot. If you had any abilities at reading comprehension, you would understand the difference between a paraphrase of your comments versus an opinion I endorse myself.

"On the Gonzales hearing: I'm also surprised to see that the Volokh Conspiracy (a libertarian legal group blog) is also silent. And I don't see a lot of reporting in the press."

Kerr or Volokh do their occasional posts on the issue, but because the GOP is so obviously in the wrong here, and they are both strong supporters of the GOP, its practically painful for them to admit the truth.

I mean, how many Harry Potter posts did they put up at Volohk recently ? How many posts obsessing over minor quibbles of english usage have you seen? They are AVOIDING the issue as hard as they cnn over at Volohk, because most of them (Bernstein excluded) are intellectually honest -- and its easier for them to avoid an unpleasant topic than deal with it honestly.

P_Luk: What you said re Volokh. While I agree with you in generally praising their intellectual honesty, I'd add Adler to the exception list. His recent post on "green as the new yellow" on emotion in arguments about the environment was a classic example of projection. And typical for him.

Jack - they very well could be... who knows? Until they get some kind of registration mechanism in here who knows what we get. It could all be one guy carrying on a conversation with himself.

We've got a Republican Senator dropping pretty explicit hints that he believes the Republican Attorney General could be criminally prosecuted for lying to Congress. Does anyone at Time care?

Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA) warned Gonzales yesterday: “My suggestion to you is you review your testimony to find out if your credibility has been breached to the point of being actionable,” Specter said. Time reports, “The maximum penalty for being caught lying to Congress is five years in prison and a fine of $250,000 per count. Specter wryly noted to reporters during a break that there is a jail in the Capitol complex.”

IMPEACH GONZO and his BOSSES!

Nah, only the Democrats are cowardly enough to back out of debates. Like they did with the Fox debate.

To liberal Fox-haters:

I agree that Fox is a partisan conservative outlet. Only the wacko fringe of the right disputes this.

Here is what you are missing:

CNN (along with MSNBC, the NYT, all network news, Time, Newsweek, all of Hollywood and all of the music industry, etc, etc)is a partisan liberal outlet and only the wacko fringe of the left disputes this.

There is no difference between wacko liberals and wacko conservatives. You are both hypocrites and you are both blind to the bias of the news outlest that don't share your narrow world views.

The only hypocrites are the neocons who think it is ok to invade nations for oil and stock options and lie to the people about it!

The left = the truth!

The truth will grant us victory in 08!

I think I lost about 50 IQ points reading this blog but I am always curious about what makes liberals tick.

A quote from Winston Churchhill comes to mind: “Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains. Show me a young conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.

The Democrat platform is a joke: Socialized medicine, Raise taxes, Perpetuate Affirmative action, Welfare, End the war at ANY cost even our security.

I Love how Liberals think that if that we just pull out of the war today that would take care of everything. Do you guys read the news? Have you heard of Radical Islam and what its doctrine is? If you think it is going away then you are sadly mistaken. Do you remember the riots in Paris? Do you see the influence they are creating in Asia, Europe, and Africa? How long do you think it will take before we see the real terrorism here if we allow it to flourish overseas? Twenty five percent of Muslims under 30 in the USA support suicide bombings in some capacity. You know they ignored the Nazi part and look where that left us after a decade of looking the other way

So you guys need to not talk so much about things you don’t understand. Kind of like the old saying “Best to keep one’s mouth shut and look like an idiot that to open it and remove all doubt.”

Sources

Quote

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill

Muslim statistics

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-eteraz/us-muslims-and-suicide-bo_b_49286.html

Yes, you think "the left=the truth" and there are also mindless partisans on the right who think "the right is truth". You are the same.

Let me guess, you also think Olbermann is a "truth teller" while Hannity is a liar? You are repulsed by Anne Coulter's nastiness and cruelty, yet you celebrate Bill Maher as a genius.

Rabid partisans on the right and the left have far more in common with each other than with most Americans. It isn't Coulter or Maher who are the problem, it is the partisans who are too gullible and/or hateful to understand that they are exactly the same thing.

Judgement, are you a neocon sock trollboy puppet too?

First:

1) there is no terrorist threat other than what we create with neoimperialistic policies that anger the rest of the world. the threat is simply a control tool that Bush uses to take away our civil liberties like the Patriot Act!

2) Free universal healthcare by the government is a fundamental human right as is affirmative action.

3) It is right to pay the needed taxes to promote social justice - that is a fundamental plank of the Democratic platform. I think anyone making over 100,000 a year needs to pay 60% and no one making under 40,000 a year needs to pay any. That is social justice.

4) you are racist if you oppose affirmative action and should be ashamed

5) no war at any cost and peace at any cost is the way to live with tolerance and harmony and should be our foreign policy, not invasion of nations for oil and oppression like we have done.

Happily the neocon days are numbered. If we don't get you via impeachment we will get you in the polls in 08!

Ann Coulter is a racist evil person.
So is Hannity.
Colmes is a watered down token liberal.
Al Frankin speaks for me!

Hey Archie. I'm glad Al speaks for you but you might want to learn how to spell his name.

"Anyone who does not agree with me is bad" - Archie Stanson (or anyother mindelss partisan of the left or the right)

John

The only mindless partisans are the neocons. We liberal partisans have minds and use them everyday. Don't you read what other great liberal thinkers like me say in here (read up on JJ, rmrd0000, arch, ama, and crust) and tell me that we are mindless.

John_L, you're taking a prop for reality. Archie is a GOP troll who parodies liberal positions because he can't argue with us directly.

But it's not surprising that you're so easily fooled. Because if you're a Fox News watcher, this sort of illusion-reinforcement is what you get all the time (before the war, 70% of Fox News watchers thought Iraq was involved in 9/11).

Archie

1) Neoimperialistic? How does trying to enforce UN security resolutions constitute imperialism? It was 1441 and 1337 I believe if you so care to educate yourself.

2) Where in the constitution does it say anything about a right to health care because I swear when I read it I don't remember that anywhere? Health care is not a right. Just like you are not entitled to a job. You are not entitled to anything this isn't the Marxist country you are trying to turn it into yet.

3)That is total socialism. Why should I give any of my hard earned money that I took time to become educated and make sacrifices and worked, to had over to someone who has not done the same. Besides it is the wealth that creates more money for others not by taking it from people who know how to utilize it to give to some welfare recipient.

4)I am not a racist but the time for affirmative action is over. If we as a country are ever going to look forward from racism then we need to remove all forms of racism and AA is based on race and therefore is a form of racism.

5)Peace at the cost of you becoming a Muslim and converting your faith because that is really their intention. I am not even religious but they do not tolerate this as an exception either.

Well if you do then finally you can start to actually be held accountable instead of being able to say it was someone else like Liberals always

Judge or JJ or arch or whoever you are --

1) JJ is a liberal who is ashamed that he is not a true liberal and attacks anyone who is as some kind of GOP plant. it is sad.

2) any invasion of another nation is neoimperialism

3) Healthcare is a basic human right just like the right of human migration. Some rights like these trump those in the Constitution which is a living document.

4) We need to be a socialist society as this is the only way we can accomplish social justice and that is one of the most important things we as Democrats believe.

5) Only someone who wants to keep the african american man down resists affirmative action which is the least we can do to make up for the sin of slavery

6) we need to live in a peaceful secular world where people who are fooled by religion can co-exist. we must use the tolerance and celebration of all cultures to gain peace.

Yer kidding right? the Repukeagin's actually responding to semi literate questions that aren't steeped in the Osama's are coming, the Osama's are coming.

One can only Hope that if the U tubers format is used that some of questioner's will actually get it and will use flash cards with pictures on them so that the lead balls perceiving the question take the time to cue up to give an answer past I cant remember of this administration.

Lets hope Cooper is there to Help stroke their ignorance, and help them navigate past their own lies that are sure to be forthcoming post haste.

P.S reading anything by Monsewer Klein is a hopeless waste of a good effort to be Irrelevant, His dichotomy is soo, soo, soo, predictably JOE KLEIN, nothing new here.

Archie

1) Typical that you should come out and make insights into my personality and you don't know me that is also the typical Liberal branding that makes you feel superior. If someone doesn't agree with your inferior logic you attack them with brands of racism or other angry rhetoric to side step having to answer a question.

2) Invading a nation for the security of your own is necessary I wouldn't expect someone who is a pacifist as your self to understand that but the freedoms that you enjoy where purchased with the blood of men who came before you. So yes sometimes it is necessary. Was it neo-imperialism to invade Afghanistan, Japan, Korea, or Germany? Oh by the way neoimperialism is not a word. It must have been on the Liberal toilet paper word of the day roll. Just wasn’t sure you knew that since you always misspell it. We also need to have a sphere of influence around the globe to protect our allies and protect our global interests.

3) Anywhere in nature do you see that it is an animals right to live? Why are we so different..because we are sentient? Healthcare is not a basic human right. Neither is food or employment. Can you even imagine our government trying to institute a health care program? I know I can't when we can't balance the budget and are bipartisan to the point that the government is paralyzed to handle basic government functions at the moment. In any country that offers socialized medicine where do they fall in the order of innovation? I can’t remember that last time I heard someone say I have got to go to Canada to get cutting edge brain surgery or cancer treatment or anything. You know why because their health care system is only adequate for common practice healthcare. To institute socialized medicine is a death sentence to innovation in medicine. To be quite honest it is because there is no money in it at that point.

4) Yes you would like to live in a society that takes care of you from cradle to grave, the state raises and your kids to believe what they feel is important, and you will not have the burdens that you do now. That is not a free society at that point you do not have any freedom. So who defines this social justice…you? So you are basically saying you are a communist right? I just want to hear you say it. Communism didn’t work before and it will not work again especially in a world headed toward globalization. China is a good example they are holding on so tight they are headed for a revolution. You can’t break free will and tell people what they need to do, what job they are to have, and how they are to live their lives. What baffles me is that is exactly what you want to do under the guises of taking care of “basic fundamental human rights”. If you liberals really wanted to do something you would get together create non profit organizations and do all the causes you want to and leave my tax dollars in my wallet. The problem is that will never happen because you feel you are so superior you know best how to spend my money that I have worked, sacrificed and educated myself to enable me to attain the level of income I have. You will never have your utopian society because people are inherently greedy. Even in you Marxist society you have those in power and those with nothing, the cast system. At least in capitalism you are left to your own destiny to become whatever it is you strive to become. How many rags to riches stories do you hear in this country? Some of the lowliest people work hard and become senators, actors, or whatever they sacrifice work hard and follow their dreams. Basically you want to take that opportunity away from people so everyone is equal and that is exactly opposite of the principles this country was founded.

5) I liked your first comment where you labeled me a racist for even questioning AA. I don’t want to keep people down I want to empower them and remove the stigma of racism from this country. You sir are the racist by perpetuating rules and quotas based on race. I want to remove it from the cultural consciousness while you want to perpetuate it. As a side note how long is ones penitence for slavery. Do you own slaves? Did your father? Did your great grand father? I am a white male and my family never owned any slaves. When is it enough? How long do we as a society keep paying for something that we didn’t do? The mistakes and sins of previous generations are between them and the almighty. Are you suggesting that AA last forever? It was meant to level the playing field and my question is after 40 years has it not? If it hasn’t by now then it will never be successful and like the Democrat argument about the war if it is not working now it needs to end.

6) That would be good logic if both societies are willing to communicate honestly and come to a resolution of differences. However this is not the case since based in the Koran it exonerates them from lying to an infidel. There can be no peace if someone is not held to honest open communications to resolve differences and it is the radical Muslim doctrines to have everyone convert to Islamic law. So you can ignore the issue if you so choose to do so but, it will not go away. Again I know you are a pacifist and I am sure would ask a person who invades your home to please leave and I am sure they will do so if you ask. If you believe that then I am truly sorry for you because you don’t understand the true nature of people.

Edit: that was partisan on point 3 man I need to proof read.